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Author Topic:   The new teachings of Jesus
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 16 of 106 (326996)
06-27-2006 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Jazzns
06-27-2006 11:12 AM


Re: Let he who without edit, make the first add
Plenty more additions to come I presume. The NIV is a good example of the ever so slight evolution of the message of the bible. Many things are "paraphrased" in the NIV in order to blur the inconsistencies in the bible. It is what the writers "meant" rather than what they said.
If you met some tribesmen in the jungle, and your only way to keep them from killing was to preach the gospel to them, would you say:
a. Jesus came and showed us the way, it is in writing, or
b. I know your God, and He has a son, he left carvings on the trail for us to follow.
(I give credit to the movie End of the Spear for that line, good movie btw)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Jazzns, posted 06-27-2006 11:12 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Jazzns, posted 06-28-2006 8:50 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 17 of 106 (327061)
06-28-2006 5:31 AM


Redaction and all that
As a few here and many out in the world at large tell us, they are in contact with the Holy Ghost/Spirit, so I imagine a cheery chat might determine whether any additions might make the cut.
HS: now we are going to set this Book straight, once and for all
Literalist: Huh?
HS: turn to page 1462. See the first verse? Add 'and HE did bless them all'
Lit: k
HS: drop the next verse. Never did like it
Lit: right
HS: now we ditch 'sheep' in the next line, because I told those first writers that it was 'goats'. Talk about it being hard to find good help
Lit: done
HS: now we come to the big add-ons----------------

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by jaywill, posted 06-28-2006 12:15 PM Nighttrain has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 18 of 106 (327090)
06-28-2006 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by riVeRraT
06-27-2006 10:42 PM


Re: Let he who without edit, make the first add
What does that have to do with the immutable and innerrant word of God?
Preaching is different than the issue of the text of the Bible. The NIV IS different.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by riVeRraT, posted 06-27-2006 10:42 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by riVeRraT, posted 06-28-2006 6:30 PM Jazzns has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 19 of 106 (327172)
06-28-2006 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Nighttrain
06-28-2006 5:31 AM


Re: Redaction and all that
Cheery chat between truth seeker and skeptic
Skeptic: I have been searching Internet for 10 years and see no difference between the Bible's stories and those about the Tooth Fairy.
Truth Seeker: How many debates have you had about the Tooth Fairy?
Skeptic: None.
Truth Seeker: How many debates have you had on the Bible?
Skeptic: About 800!
Truth Seeker: But there just the same?
Skeptic: That's right.
Truth Seeker: Well let me tell you about my exper ....
Moderator: OFF TOPIC!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Nighttrain, posted 06-28-2006 5:31 AM Nighttrain has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 06-28-2006 2:07 PM jaywill has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 20 of 106 (327219)
06-28-2006 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jaywill
06-28-2006 12:15 PM


Re: Redaction and all that
What makes you think there's any difference between a skeptic and a truth seeker?

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by jaywill, posted 06-28-2006 12:15 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by ramoss, posted 06-28-2006 9:18 PM ringo has not replied
 Message 27 by jaywill, posted 06-29-2006 9:36 AM ringo has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 21 of 106 (327290)
06-28-2006 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Jazzns
06-28-2006 8:50 AM


Re: Let he who without edit, make the first add
Preaching is different than the issue of the text of the Bible. The NIV IS different.
I did not find any difference in the meaning of the example you gave.
I used to get hung up on all the different translations, and why there were so many. Translating from another language, and another time is difficult at best. Some Greek words have five English meanins.
There is also 6 billion people in the world, and just maybe we need all these different translations. 2 people could read the same sentence and interpret it differently. So you should just pick the translation that you feel most comfortable with, and start from there.
It's what's in your heart, and your desire to seek God that will get you the true word of God. God places a desire for us to know Him. It's just up to you to accept it or not. I think any bible is a good enough plce to start looking for Him. I feel I understand the bible so much more now, with the help of the Holy Spirit.
As far as the new teachings of Jesus, I don't even see the need to add something to the bible. There are plenty of books out there, where people relate the word of God to today. Take a look at the Purpose Driven Life, a huge best seller. I think that book is great.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Jazzns, posted 06-28-2006 8:50 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Jazzns, posted 06-28-2006 7:49 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 22 of 106 (327318)
06-28-2006 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by riVeRraT
06-28-2006 6:30 PM


Re: Let he who without edit, make the first add
I did not find any difference in the meaning of the example you gave.
One is past tense the other is not. The past tense is used to reconcile the differences between Genesis 1 and 2. God is not recreating the animals if he "had" created them already.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by riVeRraT, posted 06-28-2006 6:30 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by riVeRraT, posted 06-29-2006 6:02 AM Jazzns has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 23 of 106 (327334)
06-28-2006 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
06-28-2006 2:07 PM


Re: Redaction and all that
Because a skeptic doesn't accept Jay's truth unquestioning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 06-28-2006 2:07 PM ringo has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 24 of 106 (327403)
06-29-2006 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Jazzns
06-28-2006 7:49 PM


Re: Let he who without edit, make the first add
Still doesn't matter to me, it's obvious that it is all past tense.
Gen 2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
That pretty much sets the stage for all of Gen 2. It's all past tense. What's the difference if we put had, or not? It's still going to be past tense.
I mean are you saying you can't believe in God now because of the word had appearing in the NIV?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Jazzns, posted 06-28-2006 7:49 PM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Jazzns, posted 06-29-2006 8:05 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 28 by jar, posted 06-29-2006 10:32 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 29 by Jazzns, posted 06-29-2006 11:03 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 25 of 106 (327414)
06-29-2006 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Nuggin
06-27-2006 9:40 AM


Mark 16:9-20 - Addition
There are several notes stating that "some manuscripts do not have" or "the earliest manuscripts do not have."
The end of the book of Mark is another place. Mark 16:9-20
Some argue that 16:8 was the last line.
Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.
My study Bible states:
Serious doubt exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and disply certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost.
This carries the part that brings some Christians to handle deadly snakes, although it doesn't really say deadly snakes.
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these sings will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Nuggin, posted 06-27-2006 9:40 AM Nuggin has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 26 of 106 (327421)
06-29-2006 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by riVeRraT
06-29-2006 6:02 AM


Re: Let he who without edit, make the first add
Still doesn't matter to me, it's obvious that it is all past tense.
That is because you are starting with the doctrine that it has to be past tense and then interpreting Genesis to fit that doctrine. What Genesis 2 actually says is that he created them which in the context of Genesis 1 means he re-created them.
I mean are you saying you can't believe in God now because of the word had appearing in the NIV?
That is just silly. How do you take my posts to mean that the NIV being wrong means I can't believe in God. The NIV was written by man. What does that have anything to do with God? All I am saying is that the NIV is ADDING stuff to the Bible. Many people like to read the NIV and quote scripture. When they do there is potential to be creating doctrine that is not in the "original" Bible.
Many Christians like to claim that the Bible is the 100% inerrant word of God. Why then would they accept a Bible like the NIV that has changed that word?
Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by riVeRraT, posted 06-29-2006 6:02 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 06-30-2006 9:45 AM Jazzns has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 27 of 106 (327437)
06-29-2006 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
06-28-2006 2:07 PM


Re: Redaction and all that
What makes you think there's any difference between a skeptic and a truth seeker?
A skeptic of course can be a seeker of the truth too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 06-28-2006 2:07 PM ringo has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 28 of 106 (327459)
06-29-2006 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by riVeRraT
06-29-2006 6:02 AM


Re: Let he who without edit, make the first add
Gen 2:4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
Remember, in the originals (or early copies of originals actually) there are no chapters and verses. It is really just one long run on sentence.
All of the Chapters and Verses were added much later, mostly when the transition was made from scroll to folio. The beginning of Genesis 2 to the middle of 2.4 is actually the end of Genesis 1. It is only there that the words used, the descriptions of GOD and other indicators change.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by riVeRraT, posted 06-29-2006 6:02 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by rgb, posted 06-29-2006 3:21 PM jar has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 29 of 106 (327468)
06-29-2006 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by riVeRraT
06-29-2006 6:02 AM


Re: Let he who without edit, make the first add
There are many more subtle differences in the NIV some that change meaning some that do not.
http://alanhorvath.com/bibleNIV.php

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by riVeRraT, posted 06-29-2006 6:02 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by riVeRraT, posted 10-04-2006 1:26 PM Jazzns has replied

  
rgb
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 106 (327520)
06-29-2006 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
06-29-2006 10:32 AM


Re: Let he who without edit, make the first add
Jar writes
quote:
Remember, in the originals (or early copies of originals actually) there are no chapters and verses. It is really just one long run on sentence.
Yes, but that was because ancient hebrew didn't have vowels, spaces between words, or punctuation marks. It was more of shorthanded notes for the priests at the time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 06-29-2006 10:32 AM jar has not replied

  
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