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Author Topic:   Philosophical ramblings on the Adam & Eve Parable
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 61 of 80 (270716)
12-19-2005 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by robinrohan
10-24-2005 2:30 PM


the reason for the fall story
no. clearly the text says that this story gives a why to work, childbirth pains, and fear of snakes. it has little to do with perfection. that's a greek standard, not a hebrew one.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 62 of 80 (270718)
12-19-2005 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by ReverendDG
10-24-2005 8:16 PM


Re: Free will not free will if you get slammed for making a choice.
i like that definition, but i don't have that much confidence in paul. clearly he thought we were inherently evil.... especially women. so much so that marriage is to be avoided unless you can't resist sex because being close to another person instead of being close to god is to be reviled.
i hate that guy.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by jaywill, posted 12-19-2005 12:24 PM macaroniandcheese has replied
 Message 66 by jaywill, posted 12-19-2005 12:28 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 63 of 80 (270722)
12-19-2005 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by jaywill
12-17-2005 12:35 PM


Re: A New Start.
genesis was not written by your average contemporary male chauvanist. it describes adam as very stupid. one, he fails to make his own decisions. god made his covenant regarding the trees with adam, not with eve. notice their eyes weren't opened until after adam ate the fruit. but further, after he's caught and accused he starts blaming others. he's a dolt and a wimp. but he doesn't blame the woman. read it closely.
And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest [to be] with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
he's blaming god for putting her there as though she was made to make him fall. what a putz.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by jaywill, posted 12-19-2005 12:19 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 64 of 80 (270750)
12-19-2005 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by macaroniandcheese
12-19-2005 10:40 AM


genesis was not written by your average contemporary male chauvanist. it describes adam as very stupid. one, he fails to make his own decisions. god made his covenant regarding the trees with adam, not with eve.
Are you sure? God called both of them together Adam.
notice their eyes weren't opened until after adam ate the fruit. but further, after he's caught and accused he starts blaming others. he's a dolt and a wimp. but he doesn't blame the woman. read it closely.
Could you explain that please. I thought he passed the buck.
This message has been edited by jaywill, 12-19-2005 12:20 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-19-2005 10:40 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 65 of 80 (270752)
12-19-2005 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by macaroniandcheese
12-19-2005 10:31 AM


Re: Free will not free will if you get slammed for making a choice.
i like that definition, but i don't have that much confidence in paul. clearly he thought we were inherently evil.... especially women. so much so that marriage is to be avoided unless you can't resist sex because being close to another person instead of being close to god is to be reviled.
i hate that guy.
You be way too hard on Paul.
Besides, Paul said we're all chaste virgins to Christ spiritually. He made us all women.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-19-2005 10:31 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 66 of 80 (270753)
12-19-2005 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by macaroniandcheese
12-19-2005 10:31 AM


Re: Free will not free will if you get slammed for making a choice.
hate that guy.
Paul said a certain Junia was note among the apostles.
That was a feminine name. A woman apostle?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-19-2005 10:31 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 67 of 80 (270940)
12-19-2005 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by jaywill
12-19-2005 12:19 PM


he did. read further. he blames it on god for giving him the woman.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 68 of 80 (270941)
12-19-2005 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by jaywill
12-19-2005 12:24 PM


Re: Free will not free will if you get slammed for making a choice.
as far as i'm concerned, paul has very little worth reading. it goes beyond his gender issues to where he flat out contradicts christ. whatever happened to peter and why does paul run our church?

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 69 of 80 (270942)
12-19-2005 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by jaywill
12-19-2005 12:28 PM


Re: Free will not free will if you get slammed for making a choice.
yes, he talks about a great number of women and their contributions to ministry. but clearly it's disgraceful for them to speak in church. (this isn't new. it was anathema for a woman to sing in the jewish temple. her voice was 'enchanting' and would cause men to fall.)
if women cannot assist others by their own walks with the lord, then they are not equal or valued.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 70 of 80 (270951)
12-19-2005 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by jaywill
12-19-2005 8:34 AM


Re: Eve and Descendants
Nighttrain,
"A fool and his money are soon parted"
I like that. Where did you read it?
It`s an old capitalist proverb.:-p

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by jaywill, posted 12-19-2005 8:34 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by jaywill, posted 12-20-2005 4:07 PM Nighttrain has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 71 of 80 (271155)
12-20-2005 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Nighttrain
12-19-2005 9:48 PM


Re: Eve and Descendants
It`s an old capitalist proverb.:-p
The same proverb book that says I can't serve God and mammon?
The same one that says the early church had all things in common?
Like I said. Something for everyone not to like.
I think your problem must be with Adam Smith and not the Bible.
By the way - that was between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21 where supposedly you found nothing worthwhile.
This message has been edited by jaywill, 12-20-2005 04:08 PM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 12-20-2005 04:10 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Nighttrain, posted 12-19-2005 9:48 PM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 72 of 80 (271246)
12-21-2005 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by jaywill
12-20-2005 4:07 PM


Re: Eve and Descendants
The same proverb book that says I can't serve God and mammon?
The same proverb that Christians ignore.
The same one that says the early church had all things in common?
The same one that Christians ignore.
Like I said. Something for everyone not to like.
Guess that`s why there are so many Christian denominations.
By the way - that was between Genesis 1:1 and Revelation 22:21 where supposedly you found nothing worthwhile.
I often wonder how our history would have evolved without the sick and contradictory messages contained within the Bible

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by jaywill, posted 12-20-2005 4:07 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by jaywill, posted 12-22-2005 7:09 AM Nighttrain has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 73 of 80 (271627)
12-22-2005 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Nighttrain
12-21-2005 2:37 AM


Re: Eve and Descendants
Nighttrain
The same proverb that Christians ignore.
I seek for Christians who are mature and inspire my faith.
Maybe your approach is totally opposite. Maybe you search out Christians who will strengthen your skepticism and reinforce your cynicism.
As for me I look for disciples who will help my faith and not hurt my faith. And I have found thousands who do serve God rather than mammon.
And if you are so clear what Christians should be doing then how do you know that God will not hold you even more responsible. You really know better than all of them, right?
The same one that Christians ignore.
How much effort have you spent to seek out Christians who don't ignore the Bible?
Or do you just keep a watchful eye out on those who will give you excuse to ignore the Bible?
And since you are so clear about what they should do then when you face God on the day of judgement then perhaps you'll be all the more responsible.
Guess that`s why there are so many Christian denominations.
I'm not. Thousands I know are not. How much time do you spend seeking Christians who meet in the genuine oneness?
Or do you just keep a sharp eye out for Christians in divisions so you can reinforce your own self righteousness?
Maybe you're in a denomination of one - yourself.
I often wonder how our history would have evolved without the sick and contradictory messages contained within the Bible
If you had any kind of historical objectivity to your attitude you might also wonder how things would fair, on the other hand, if there were no Bible at all.
A lot of food has been put into hungry stomachs under the banner of the Bible. A lot of cloths have been put on naked backs under the banner of the Bible. A lot of people have been freed from bondage under the banner of the Bible.
So you have no objectivity on the subject. You're warped with your particular kind of prejudicial bias.
This message has been edited by jaywill, 12-22-2005 07:11 AM
This message has been edited by jaywill, 12-22-2005 07:14 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Nighttrain, posted 12-21-2005 2:37 AM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Nighttrain, posted 12-22-2005 7:23 PM jaywill has replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 74 of 80 (271778)
12-22-2005 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Parasomnium
12-13-2005 9:33 AM


Bump: Theology questions for Carico
Carico, welcome back.
Please take a look at this. And please don't be offended. It's an attempt to mirror some of your reasoning, in the hope that you will come to understand why we think it a bit strange sometimes.
It's not personal.

Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 75 of 80 (271821)
12-22-2005 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by jaywill
12-22-2005 7:09 AM


Re: Eve and Descendants
So your thousands balance the millions of Christians who walk a different path?
Or does the remote possibility exist that you might be wrong?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by jaywill, posted 12-22-2005 7:09 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
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