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Author Topic:   first genetic material
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 19 of 84 (506768)
04-28-2009 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by molbiogirl
12-24-2007 1:19 AM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
I am new to discussion boards in general and have enjoyed reading through the comments. The origin of life has always fasinated me. If we are considering RNA as the substance that started the chain, where did the matter necessary to form RNA originate?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by molbiogirl, posted 12-24-2007 1:19 AM molbiogirl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by lyx2no, posted 04-28-2009 10:18 PM dpeele has not replied
 Message 21 by onifre, posted 04-29-2009 1:21 PM dpeele has replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 22 of 84 (506988)
04-30-2009 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by onifre
04-29-2009 1:21 PM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
I appreciate your response and correcting me on my misuse of the term "matter". Does anyone have a theory on the origin of the elements? I like your Chomsky quote.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by onifre, posted 04-29-2009 1:21 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by onifre, posted 04-30-2009 7:33 PM dpeele has replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 24 of 84 (507010)
04-30-2009 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by onifre
04-30-2009 7:33 PM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
I don't have any theories... I don't have the intelligence or the vision. I guess we make the assumption that the building blocks,oxygen and silicon within the supernova, was in existence but origin can not be determined.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by onifre, posted 05-01-2009 12:37 AM dpeele has replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 26 of 84 (507034)
05-01-2009 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by onifre
05-01-2009 12:37 AM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
Where did the burning oxygen and burning silicon come from? What are their origins? Without those two elements/gases you do not have a star...

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by onifre, posted 05-01-2009 9:55 AM dpeele has replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 28 of 84 (507626)
05-06-2009 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by onifre
05-01-2009 9:55 AM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
Do you believe this quote to be true. I start have trouble at this point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by onifre, posted 05-01-2009 9:55 AM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Coyote, posted 05-06-2009 9:48 PM dpeele has replied
 Message 35 by onifre, posted 05-07-2009 1:21 PM dpeele has replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 30 of 84 (507636)
05-06-2009 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Coyote
05-06-2009 9:48 PM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
Very well... do you believe the statement to be accurate?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Coyote, posted 05-06-2009 9:48 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 32 by dpeele, posted 05-06-2009 10:51 PM dpeele has not replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 32 of 84 (507640)
05-06-2009 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by dpeele
05-06-2009 9:56 PM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
But does the lack of an alternative make a theory accurate? People thought the world was flat for thousands of years. I don't have the answers, but I know the big bang was not observable and is not repeatable. So aren't we left with assumptions that are believed to be true/accurate - otherwise we would not have made them??

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Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Coyote, posted 05-07-2009 12:37 AM dpeele has replied
 Message 34 by NosyNed, posted 05-07-2009 12:42 AM dpeele has replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 36 of 84 (507915)
05-08-2009 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Coyote
05-07-2009 12:37 AM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
I have read that radiocarbon dating is based on several faulty assumptions. Even if one of those are contentions are correct then the method of dating is unreliable. I would find it hard to believe that with the universe changing over billions of years that anything would remain constant. You would have to admit Can the universe evolve and remain constant at the same time?
The Big Bang and Licoln's assassination aren't really comparable. There are several documented eye witness accounts of the wound and his death.
How do you refute these questions the ID crowd have around the accuracy of carbon dating?
I really appreciate your tone in this discussion. I just have questions.

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 Message 33 by Coyote, posted 05-07-2009 12:37 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Coyote, posted 05-08-2009 10:42 PM dpeele has replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 37 of 84 (507916)
05-08-2009 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by NosyNed
05-07-2009 12:42 AM


Re: Observations
That is interesting... what kind of traces?

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dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 39 of 84 (507920)
05-08-2009 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by onifre
05-07-2009 1:21 PM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
This is where I have concerns. Your belief is based on a statement that contains "a few minutes" and "is believed to". I have a hard time believing that 113 unique elements were created by superheated oxygen and silicon - proof... there they are. As far as I know scientist can not recreate an event to produce even one element.
See.. my doubt is based on claims that I feel have not been proven. I would think that no theory is better than an incorrect theory. One position is continuing to search while the other has settled on fabrication.
Darwin challenged the accepted creationist theory of his day. I am just asking questions.
"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

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Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by onifre, posted 05-09-2009 4:58 PM dpeele has replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 40 of 84 (507922)
05-08-2009 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Coyote
05-08-2009 10:42 PM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
I was just responding to your presentation of carbon dating into the discussion. Please direct me to the correct thread I would like for you to help me work through the misinformation I read.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Coyote, posted 05-08-2009 10:42 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Coyote, posted 05-08-2009 11:49 PM dpeele has replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 50 of 84 (508098)
05-10-2009 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Coyote
05-08-2009 11:49 PM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
Thank you....

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dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 51 of 84 (508104)
05-10-2009 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by onifre
05-09-2009 4:58 PM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
I noticed you chose not deal with "few minutes" and "is believed to be" in your quote explaining the Big Bang. I don't accept the time frame - could have been 15.756489347 seconds or a billions years - face it...they don't know. They are not sure that this process produced the elements by their own admission - "is believed to be"
The simple question "Where did that come from?" will take you back far enough into the theory that you will have to say "I don't know how that happened or where it originated". EVs have to believe it was just there and IDs believe it was spoken into existence from nothing. Either way... you don't know.
"Evidence" is tainted by human bias and methods based on assumptions. Each side picks and chooses evidence that supports their position and if it doesn't then it is considered erroneous or irrevelant.
IDs want to prove creation; Humanists want to prove evolution.
I will go back and read the links out of respect for the time you have spent with me in discussion. I can understand your frustration, but the use of "street language" is not necessary and beneath a person of your intellect.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by onifre, posted 05-10-2009 5:19 PM dpeele has replied
 Message 56 by cavediver, posted 05-10-2009 6:32 PM dpeele has replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 53 of 84 (508108)
05-10-2009 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by onifre
05-10-2009 5:19 PM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
They are not just words. You have wide variety of words at your disposal and you choose the one that best expresses your emotion at the moment. They give insight to who you are...
Regards...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by onifre, posted 05-10-2009 5:19 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by onifre, posted 05-10-2009 5:52 PM dpeele has replied

  
dpeele
Junior Member (Idle past 4922 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 04-28-2009


Message 55 of 84 (508110)
05-10-2009 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by onifre
05-10-2009 5:52 PM


Re: Fortuitous happenstances
Like I said... it gives insight. Not really offended - more disappointed...
I am reading through the links this afternoon, and will need alot of time to absorb all the information.
However, I am interested by this statement found on Wiki dealing with the Big Bang... "At some point an unknown reaction called baryogenesis violated the conservation of baryon number, leading to a very small excess of quarks and leptons over antiquarks and anti-leptonsof the order of 1 part in 30 million. This resulted in the predominance of matter over antimatter in the present universe."[27]
Unknown Reaction?? It sounds as if this unknown reaction has to take place for all this to work... or is this layman's terms as well?
I'll keep reading...

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Theodoric, posted 05-10-2009 6:45 PM dpeele has replied
 Message 58 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-10-2009 7:00 PM dpeele has replied

  
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