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Author Topic:   Thermodynamics, Abiogenesis and Evolution
Creation Guy
Junior Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 16
From: NJ
Joined: 08-15-2009


Message 103 of 128 (519649)
08-15-2009 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by RAZD
04-12-2004 4:43 PM


The second LAW of thermodynamics is often a law that is tossed about by creationists. This is a good argument because the law is one of entropy - that everthing from stars to cars are falling apart and winding down.
This means there was an ordered creation OR special evolutionary magic that only occurs when unobserved. Both of these events creation and evolutionary magic are unobserved and therefore the belief in either is not science it is religion.
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Boyles Law and the 2nd law are Laws because we can prove them. They trump theories hand down. If you have a theory which goes against, as evolution does, the laws we know - one is wrong.
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Creation Guy
Junior Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 16
From: NJ
Joined: 08-15-2009


Message 107 of 128 (519713)
08-16-2009 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by cavediver
08-16-2009 7:02 AM


Stars do not form
Boyles law dictated that gasses have a certain spring quality which inderctly caused them to fill the containers they were in evenly. If there was no container, such as we have in the atmosphere - it fills the gravity well of the planet.
The atmosphere extends up to 75 miles out or so. Only the first 5 miles are anywhere near livable. Anything above that is too rare to support much life. Although some material and spores do make the journey in those reaches.
If all that was required to make fusion was just a lot of gas being in one spot how have we not been able to replicate that? We have worked on it for 50 years now almost.
I would also ask why no new star has ever been seen to wink into existence and all we have good hubble shots of is stars in nova or supernova status, close to 50 since we have been able to view them over the past half century.
Gasses do not move to fill the galaxy because if they are in a gravity well of a body they are acted on by that body and keep dispersion to the same degree that they are acted on. Re-read that a few times but this is WHY the upper atmospehere stays rare. If it was just based on gravity it would all slam into the planet an we would have compressed gas 2200 feet thick and nothing above it.
More simply hydrogen at 65 miles is acted on by weak gravity and will only move down to a level of where it begins to be acted on by more particles in such a manner that allows it to stay at or near 65 miles.
A case in point would be on the Apollo 13 mission when they jettisoned the urine - a fair amount of the urine stayed within a few meters of the vessel as it was being acted on by the vessels minute gravity. When the vessel got into the gravity well of the moon the urine satellites were pulled away. What does this go to prove?
Particles of matter do not clutter together in open space, nor do gasses. They keep their distance based on the gravity that they are acted on by. If they are not acted on by any gravity then they would move to equally distribute themselves across space - very slowly since nothing is acting on them except the random collisions in space of the wayward partciles.
By stellar evolutions account why is the Earth not a star? If gasses can coalecse in open space then they could certainly do it with a planet as a starter kit? if they cannot do it with a planet and the planet holds rare atmosphere out to 75 miles why would it be able to happen without the planet?
I would submit, and you all will hate me for it amd cast out my name as evil, that stars were all created because what we know about gases and gravity and physics does not allow stars to come about free of divine intervention.

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Replies to this message:
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Creation Guy
Junior Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 16
From: NJ
Joined: 08-15-2009


Message 108 of 128 (519718)
08-16-2009 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by DevilsAdvocate
08-16-2009 2:20 PM


Attack the messenger
I am trying to attempt to get a handle on the practical magic behind stellar magic of creating stars. If gas does not compact itself how can stellar evolution ever get off the ground. No where has it ever been seen to compact - in fact we have hard physics that state otherwise.
This plays directly into thermodynamics - as a principal of increasing entropy until the system is at equilibrium. Which it is not at now. If stellar evolution cannot take flight then the whole of evolution falls because now you have a situation where God steps in to handle the steps that science has not yet figured out?
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 Message 110 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 08-16-2009 5:39 PM Creation Guy has replied

  
Creation Guy
Junior Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 16
From: NJ
Joined: 08-15-2009


Message 112 of 128 (519738)
08-16-2009 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by DevilsAdvocate
08-16-2009 5:39 PM


Re: Attack the messenger
Gas does not compact of its own accord. We can force it to. Gravity can act on it, but it does not happen to the point of stellar compression, whatever that may be.
Second the fact that stars age and die does not prove anything other that entropy. Stars are not being born. Show me one. I am not suggesting stars do not age and go from one phase to the next - they just simply cannot form. They must be created by some amount of intelligence. Again sustainable fusion reactions are not easy.
The entire universe is not at equilibrium. Not until everything is burned out and scattered to fill the container evenly - will it be. It is said that 14 billion years ago we exploded from a bang and now here we sit - everything all nice and orbiting and somewhat stable. I do not buy it.
There were 3 universe theories - Big bang and everything is expanding outward - filling more and more volume.
This would lead to eventual loss of all heat through irrecoverable heat loss and the components slowly wearing down as there is no way to recover most of it. Photosynthesis notwithstanding.
There was the oscillating universe theory - where it explanded and contracted in cycles. The entire universe. No mechanism for what would cause the contraction so this fell out of favor.
There also was, at one time, the steady state universe theory. that everything has always been pretty much as it sits now. This was picked up by the ID crowd so the secular scientific crowd rejected it out of hand.
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 121 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-19-2009 3:45 AM Creation Guy has replied

  
Creation Guy
Junior Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 16
From: NJ
Joined: 08-15-2009


Message 113 of 128 (519740)
08-16-2009 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Coyote
08-16-2009 5:48 PM


Urine
No that a ship the size of a truck has gravity when it is not close to any other gravity well.
Also that the particles do not congeal onto the truck - they just float nearby as little gravity is acted on them they compress little.
Say if you could stop your vessel at L5 where there is zero or very little gravity well affecting you. Other than your own. Gas would - start gathering around your vessel. Within a certain distance around your vessell an 'atmosphere' would form. It would be very rare and maybe not even noticable, but gravity dictates that it would exist.
I remember from astrophysics that if you half the distance you quadruple the effect. Inversely if you double the distance you divide the effect by 4. This is the basis for how gravity wells function I would surmise. The farther you are from it the less likely you are to pulled into it - this would also go for gases.
What I am saying is that
Gases do not attract other gases. They are too light in the pants.
Planets do not attract enough gases and gases they do attract are held by a loose fitting gravity well that will not compress the lower bound gases to anywhere near fusion compression rates (whatever that is).

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Creation Guy
Junior Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 16
From: NJ
Joined: 08-15-2009


Message 123 of 128 (520601)
08-22-2009 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Dr Adequate
08-19-2009 3:45 AM


Creation
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Creation Guy
Junior Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 16
From: NJ
Joined: 08-15-2009


Message 126 of 128 (520606)
08-22-2009 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by New Cat's Eye
08-22-2009 2:31 PM


Re: Creation
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Creation Guy
Junior Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 16
From: NJ
Joined: 08-15-2009


Message 127 of 128 (520607)
08-22-2009 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by New Cat's Eye
08-22-2009 2:31 PM


natural selection selects
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