The "Digital Code" of DNA

Talk of "schematics and blueprints" seems to assume the conclusion that there is a "code".DNA isn't a blueprint, it's a machine. And it isn't just a complex machine like an F-22, it's a machine that builds other machines.It builds what it is capable of building, just like a cookie-cutter builds cookie-cutter-shaped cookies. No blueprint required.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

Don't think in terms of individual molecules. Think in terms of "generations" of molecules.The machines build the factories and the factories build more machines, which build more factories which build more machines.... The machines are tailor-made by the factories to tailor-make more factories.There are no "genes" except the functions of the machines.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

"Design" isn't the issue here. It doesn't matter where the cookie-cutter came from. Once it exists, it continues to turn out cookies with no need of a blueprint. The point of the analogy is that DNA is made by a jig/template/cookie-cutter with no need of a blueprint.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

Yes, and in the Jacquard loom, the code, cards, card-reader, etc. are separate from the machine that does the work. What you need to do (and what I have asked you to do in several other threads) is show us a separate code, separate code-carrier, separate code-reader, etc. All you've done so far is insist that they "must" be there.Essentially, you're saying that an airplane has a pilot, so a bird must have a pilot too. The DNA molecule is simply using the chemical principles built into each of its atoms and bonds. If a molecule has "evolved" to have a certain behaviour, that behaviour is still dependent on the structure of the molecule. I haven't said anything about biological machines. I'm talking about chemical machines.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

He/she is certainly more "separate" from the plane than a bird's "pilot" is separate from the bird. Again, that is basically what you're claiming: that there is some spooky "pilot" which is not part of the bird's ordinary "birdness". I know, you're saying that and saying that and saying that and saying that.... I'm asking you to show us some indication that it's true. Show us something in the "behaviour" of DNA that can not be explained by chemistry. Rocks do have "codes" - every bit as much as DNA does. I'm saying there is no digital code. Therefore, there is no need for installation or principles to account for installation.It's time for you to show some evidence that the "code" exists. Show us something in the nature of DNA that can not be explained by chemistry.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

So what?Every molecule can do something that no other molecule can do.The question here isn't whether or not DNA/RNA can carry genetic "information". It's how that information is carried.I'm saying that the information is carried in the structure of the molecule itself. The structure is the "information". All molecules carry structural information - it just isn't used as genetic information by other molecules.You have claimed that that is not a sufficient explantion. Show us the inadequacy.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

That assertion is getting old. Show us that "the same thing is true for genes". The order is the structure.

1. You haven't shown that DNA carries "digital information".
2. What difference does it make whether or not the information is "digital"?

That's just the point: You haven't shown anything yet, except your personal incredulity.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

I have asked you to show how DNA is analogous to a CD. Please do that. I'm not disagreeing with Dawkins at all.Dawkins said that genes are "pure information". I'm saying that the information on a DNA molecule is based on its structure. The information is the "gene". The "gene" is the structure. Why would I be afraid of something that doesn't exist?

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

How is that information anything other than the structure of the molecule?

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

We're talking about how the genes are "encoded". I'm saying that the "code" is simply the structure of the DNA molecule.Here's a simple schematic of a molecule:

O - G - D

It can carry different "information" just by the arrangement of the components:

G - O - D        D - O - G

What's the problem?Edited by Ringo, : Added missing quotation mark.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

No. There are no "words" in DNA other than the structure of the molecule. The information is carried by the structure of the molecule. There is no "code" other than the structure of the molecule.The structure of the molecule is sufficient to explain the reactions of the molecule.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

That's a poor analogy. Music is separate from the instrument that produces it. The instrument is the machine that moves the air.Genetic information is not separate from the molecule that carries it. Again, so what?A gene is just a particular arrangement of atoms. Of course the arrangement doesn't "die". It can be reproduced in the same way it was produced the first time. The topic is about whether there is a "digital code", not whther or not genetic information "can be interpreted" as a digital code. Genetic information could be interpreted as poetry too.My point is that it isn't necessary to interpret it as a "code". As I have said, the chemistry is enough to explain its behaviour.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

I don't think I said that molecules "have no way to store digital codes". I said that molecules do what molecules do, with no need of a fictitious "code".The only "code" involved is the molecule. Nevertheless, directly or indirectly, it's the "shape" of the DNA molecule that determines what proteins are produced, with no need of a fictitious "code".

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

I use the word "fictitious" because you have still not produced one shred of evidence that the "digital code" of DNA is fact and not fiction.Belief in fictitious entities without evidence is religion. Understanding that molecules behave according to their chemical properties is not. Yeah, blah blah blah....Show us where Crick and Watson talk about a genetic code that is separate from the chemical properties of the molecule.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

If that's not what you're saying, please be more clear in what you are saying.To recap, here's what I'm saying: DNA operates according to chemical principles. Period. The physical arrangement of the atoms on the molecule can be interpreted as a "code", but there is no code above and beyond the physical arrangement of the atoms in the molecule. Period.

---

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC