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Member (Idle past 1630 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Self-Replicating Molecules - Life's Building Blocks (Part II) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 637 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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CRR writes:
The difference is that scientists are LOOKING for answers; creationists are not.
Pssst! Don't tell the creationists, but scientists don't have a clue how life began.
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CRR Member (Idle past 2467 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
"Those who think scientists understand the issues of prebiotic chemistry are wholly misinformed. Nobody understands them. Maybe one day we will. But that day is far from today. It would be far more helpful (and hopeful) to expose students to the massive gaps in our understanding. They may find a firmerand possibly a radically differentscientific theory.
The basis upon which we as scientists are relying is so shaky that we must openly state the situation for what it is: it is a mystery." Animadversions of a Synthetic Chemist, James Tour See also The Origin of Life: An Inside Story - 2016 Lectures (with James Tour)
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CRR Member (Idle past 2467 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
Self-Sustained Replication of an RNA Enzyme
Tracey A. Lincoln, Gerald F. Joyce They actually started with 3 carefully selected RNA strings and used one to join the other two small pieces into one piece (ligation), in a carefully controlled multi-step process. It's pretty much unlike anything likely to happen in nature.
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JonF Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Gosh! If we don't know everything we know nothing! Who would'a thunk?
Old creationist ploy.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9573 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.1 |
Who was it here that said we know how life started? Anyone?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 637 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
James tour appears to be a shill for the Discovery Institute. Can you find a quote from a scientist who doesn't have an axe to grind?
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Tangle Member Posts: 9573 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 6.1 |
He's also a chemist not a biologist.
It would be more useful if they could unearth an eminent, atheistic biologist to quote from.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 637 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
If only such a thing existed.
It would be more useful if they could unearth an eminent, atheistic biologist to quote from.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1630 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
quote: This also begs the question of when "life" develops -- I would say when evolution begins, and that looks like these molecules qualify. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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CRR Member (Idle past 2467 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
Physicist Rob Sheldon made a pithy observation regarding the University of Groningen’s latest press release and the new paper by Sandownik, Mattia, Nowak and Otto: If this paper were about anything but ‘peptides’, it would be called ‘crystallization’.
The origin of abiotic species: Seven epic fails
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1630 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Physicist Rob Sheldon ... Do you mean this Rob Sheldon?
quote: and
quote: Just asking ...
... made a pithy observation ... "Pithy" because you like it and the implications of denigrating the fact that it is peptides?
... If this paper were about anything but ‘peptides’, it would be called ‘crystallization’. ... Which becomes a meaningless statement because we are talking about peptides ... this is known as a "red herring" fallacy. So the questions remain:
Inquiring minds want to know ...
The origin of abiotic species: Seven epic fails Can you pick your best one? Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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CRR Member (Idle past 2467 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
So the questions remain:
do we have self-replicating molecules? Nodid they "evolve" and diversify into two different types of self-replicating molecules? No does this "evolution" show the possibility of life's beginning? No Inquiring minds want to know ... Which ones?
Edited by CRR, : image added
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1630 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
So the questions remain: do we have self-replicating molecules? Nodid they "evolve" and diversify into two different types of self-replicating molecules? No does this "evolution" show the possibility of life's beginning? No Inquiring minds want to know ... Which ones? Ones not in denial of the evidence, of course. People with open-minded skepticism and no preconceptions. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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dwise1 Member Posts: 6063 Joined: Member Rating: 7.5
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{the cartoon} Yes, that's the Catch-22 that creationists keep setting up to trap us in a lose-lose situation: abiogenesis cannot be proven to work until we've created life in the lab -- by creating life in the lab you've proven that it takes intelligence to create life and that it could not happen in nature. Wrong! A PhD Chemistry friend told me that it is impossible for us to cause a chemical reaction that cannot happen in nature. All we can do is to create the conditions for that reaction to happen, but if the reaction cannot happen in nature then we cannot force it to happen. Therefore, if in the laboratory we can get the reactions going for life to start, then that would mean that those reactions would have also happened in nature under the right conditions. Your Catch-22 is bullshit. So why don't we see new life springing up all the time in nature? Sidney Fox' experience with proteinoid microspheres offers the answer. Previous batches appeared to be unstable, degenerating after a few days. Then he created a new batch under sterile conditions which remained stable for years until they destroyed it because the research was completed. The reason why we do not see new life springing up all the time in nature is because of its name: food! The life that's already here just eats that stuff up! Edited by dwise1, : Added "to trap us in a lose-lose situation"
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CRR Member (Idle past 2467 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
There's a difference between cannot happen in nature and do not happen in nature.
We can produce many chemical reactions in the laboratory that do not happen in nature.
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