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| Author | Topic: jar - On Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||
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Phat Member  Posts: 18542 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
jar writes: I can accept the belief that Jesus had no power of his own, but only what God chose to use through Him.
I do believe that Jesus is GOD but while he was here on earth He was fully man, human, just like you, just like me. jar writes: OK, great. So everyone starts out saved rather than damned. Its a free gift. Got it. Yet we still get judged by what we DO versus what we COULD have done? If so, I hope that God liberally applies grace and forgiveness. NONE of us will fully do what we could have done.
Just as I believe that we must be honest about the great Evil that Christians have done in the past and that Christians are doing now, I believe we must also be honest about what the message was. It is not that Christians are saved and everyone else is damned. It is that GOD gave us in the life of Jesus a clear lesson of what a human should do, and more importantly, can do. jar,in response to CatholicScientist writes: How do these beliefs square with the latest scientific theories on (get this) not just a universe, but a potential multiverse. Sounds to me as if you believe that we humans will get to continue living, questioning, and growing on our own. We will all rise from the dead, and IMHO there really is some form of afterlife. No, we will not be here, He said we would be with Him, but I imagine that will seem as real to us as what we experience today. The point of the story, IMHO, is not that we would return here but home, that the life after death will be one of substance, one of reality. An interesting belief. Heaven does sound sort of juvenile, if a Creator needs a bunch of people praising Him and worshiping Him eternally. I cant take that as literal, (and yes, Iano and jaywill..I DID get saved, if that matters!  ) but the problem I have with your beliefs, jar, is that you stress this notion of personal responsibility so adamantly. Whats gonna happen if everyone is someday fed and clothed? Are we supposed to jet through the multiverse collectively helping other civilizations?
jar writes:
The SOURCE versus CONTENT argument makes sense to me. Even if GOD wrote the Bible, the content is more important than the idea that God wrote it.
Well, even if the whole Bible is no more than tales told around the campfire the message is still of value. jar writes: Yet the injustices of this world continue today as they have for many years. This gets back to the parables. Nobody wants to sacrifice their own comfort to help others. We as humans can easily give out of our abundance, and in fact seek abundance in order to feel secure. If God chooses to kill me for that, I cant argue with Her! IMHO the other thing that must be emphasized is that the Second Commandment is a two parter. Before you can love others you must first love yourself. Until you can honestly handle that part, look at yourself, recognizing what you have done right, what you have done wrong, how you might do better, you cannot love others. Christianity is simple, it is not easy. Folk like the fundie televangelists such as Gene Scott, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and all the other salvation for hire snake-oil salesmen seem to misunderstand everything Jesus said. It's not the show. It's not dramatic. It's not even notable or important. Loving GOD is not profession, not even belief, it is the summation of all the little things you are and do. Loving GOD is an action, a continuing practice. It is listening to a child tell you about his day or helping someone reach a package on the shelf or unload their shopping cart or laughing when your child first discovers jokes or bringing in the neighbors trash can. It's nothing big, nothing important, nothing of any real merit. A note to current EvC members: Robin Rohan died a few years ago. Dont reply to him in this thread. It makes me think, though. I could die tomorrow. What would my life be remembered for? Would it matter? Would I be happy, sad, or simply non-existent? 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.' Lewis Carroll * * * * * * * * * * Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important.~T.S.Eliot
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Phat Member Posts: 18542 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 2.5 |
In a recent topic started by our self proclaimed Gnostic Christian, Greatest I AM--he challenges us to describe Jesus and our views of Him.
This old topic by jar gives jars response--(I figured I was better off quoting jar directly rather than attempting to paraphrase which I always seem to get wrong! 
jar writes: I do believe that Jesus is GOD but while he was here on earth He was fully man, human, just like you, just like me. I think lots of folk misunderstand the term incarnate. They have, if they even really think about it at all, some idea of incarnate means "God in Human Form" as though it was some costume GOD put on so he could sneak around and spy on the humans. That makes as little sense theologically IMHO as the idea that Jesus let himself be killed as some blood sacrifice. Jesus was a teacher. The information we have all says that everything he did during his life was to teach people. If the message was as some have said, that his followers are saved and the bad guys are gonna get it, Jesus lives the wrong story. In that story when it came time to lay hands on Him He would have swung around, flapped open his oilskin slicker, drawn his trusty Ivory handled six-guns, mowed down the Clancy Brothers and rid out of town leaving behind one silver bullet and on the ears of the wind, a hearty "Hi-Ho Silver, Away". But Jesus is not some Masked Man. The power of the Jesus saga is that He is human. A God cannot be tempted, Jesus was. And Jesus resisted. And the message is "humans can resist evil". A God cannot be threated, Jesus was. And Jesus did not respond with more violence. And the message is "humans can try to find ways other than violence". A God cannot die, Jesus did. And Jesus rose from the dead. And the message is "all humans will rise from the dead". Just as I believe that we must be honest about the great Evil that Christians have done in the past and that Christians are doing now, I believe we must also be honest about what the message was. It is not that Christians are saved and everyone else is damned. It is that GOD gave us in the life of Jesus a clear lesson of what a human should do, and more importantly, can do. My "Club" has always maintained that Jesus essentially stepped out of eternity (As He Was In The Beginning) into time in order to be a solution to the problem of Original Sin. The way I see it, God created a free willed lucifer who chose to become satan. When God created good and evil, God essentially created only the possibility of evil---which had to be initially actualized--through choice---by Lucifer. Most "Clubs" stick with the story that Jesus is fully GOD and fully human. I see Jesus as with GOD in the beginning....GOD as human, in other words. God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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