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Author Topic:   Jesus; the Torah, Nevi'im, and Psalms (Part 2)
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 1 of 233 (204507)
05-02-2005 11:35 PM


Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?
continuation of Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?.
in this thread, i would like to discuss ONLY the following list of prophesies, in regards to their context, subject, and whether or not they can (or do) apply to jesus. i would also like to mention that i am open minded about this set, and have not made up my mind yet. i will bring up the next set at moderator discretion.
faith writes:
The Messiah will be born in Bethlehem Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1 and Luke 2:4-7
The Messiah will enter the Temple with authority Malachi 3:1 Matthew 21:12 and Luke 19:45
in the last thread we already covered every other prophesy and non-prophesy on faith's list to my total satisfaction, save for the ones in isaiah. but there is to be NO discussion whatsoever about isaiah 7:14, from either side. i'd like to get the stuff we missed arguing over virginity.
according to jar's suggestion, we're just gonna start with these two (micah and malachi), and then we'll move on to the isaiah verses, which i'm confident may actually apply. we'll probably take those one at a time.
new testament fulfillment is not to be discussed unless we establish the plausibility of the application to jesus beforehand. we are analyzing strictly the old testament texts, and what they are referring to first and foremost, and then seeing if they can apply to jesus, or if they really apply to something else, and were used as later influences on the nt authors.
if we exhaust each of these specific prophesies, continuation of the thread with others is up to moderator discussion.
(bible, accuracy/inerrancy please. just like the last one, this is not a debate of faith but scholarship)
This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 05-02-2005 11:49 PM

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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 233 (204510)
05-02-2005 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by arachnophilia
05-02-2005 11:35 PM


Re: Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?
I think you've got too many in there. Can you cut it down to no more than five? The others can go in part 3 or 4.

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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 3 of 233 (204516)
05-02-2005 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminJar
05-02-2005 11:37 PM


Re: Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?
alright, i cut it down to just two. i'd really like to get those other isaiah verses, however. how about i bring them back in, a few at a time, when the thread stalls on these two?
This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 05-02-2005 11:47 PM

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This message is a reply to:
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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 233 (204519)
05-02-2005 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by arachnophilia
05-02-2005 11:47 PM


Re: Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?
LOL
Like there's a chance in hell it will stay on topic.
Okay, promoting it.

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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 233 (204522)
05-02-2005 11:51 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 6 of 233 (204523)
05-02-2005 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminJar
05-02-2005 11:50 PM


Re: Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?
well, i can dream can't i?
let me know when you think it's appropriate (if ever) to bring up the isaiah verses. cause i honestly don't want 300 posts on this little bethlehem verse...

אָרַח

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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 233 (204524)
05-02-2005 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by arachnophilia
05-02-2005 11:52 PM


Re: Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?
Just don't bypass Malachi 3:17.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 8 of 233 (204526)
05-03-2005 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
05-02-2005 11:56 PM


Re: Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?
we can add it in, if you want.

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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 9 of 233 (204527)
05-03-2005 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by arachnophilia
05-03-2005 12:05 AM


Re: Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?
Well, I just dont't believe you can pull Malachi 3:1 out of the chapter without looking at the context. If you read Malachi 3 it is obvious that it has nothing to do with Jesus.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 10 of 233 (204532)
05-03-2005 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
05-03-2005 12:10 AM


Re: Did They Write About Jesus in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms?
well that is sort of where we're going with this thread. at least these two verses. so, uh, feel free to present your argument in full. and hopefully, others will join in here.

אָרַח

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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 11 of 233 (204581)
05-03-2005 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by arachnophilia
05-02-2005 11:35 PM


Malachi 3:1
"See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenent, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty.
In reading ALL of Malachi, God is the one who comes to the temple and the messenger is to be Elijah.
4:5
"See I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes....

"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 12 of 233 (204629)
05-03-2005 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by arachnophilia
05-02-2005 11:35 PM


Micah 5:2
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
The messiah presented here is a human deliverer and ruler.
Unfortunately Jesus never became a human ruler over Israel.
No talk of persecution, death, or resurrection of the ruler.
I know the debates on whether Bethleham Ephrathah is a person or a place, but again this one verse is a small portion of a very long prophecy which does not fit Jesus specifically.
No one has shown justification for verses standing alone as prophecy.

"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 13 of 233 (204645)
05-03-2005 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by purpledawn
05-03-2005 11:15 AM


Re: Micah 5:2
I believe the Jewish interpretation is that it is of the house of David.
Not a place, but a family line.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 14 of 233 (204831)
05-04-2005 1:37 AM


bump
any opposition so far?

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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 15 of 233 (205179)
05-05-2005 6:24 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by arachnophilia
05-04-2005 1:37 AM


Onto Isaiah
Looks like you have plenty of room to discuss the Isaiah verses you wanted to get to.

"The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France

This message is a reply to:
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