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Author Topic:   Bible Question: What was the First Sin?
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 5919 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 301 of 312 (439941)
12-10-2007 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by jar
12-10-2007 10:28 PM


Re: Why do you insist on making God look stupid?
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
quote:
and NOTHING to suggest that it was eating from the Tree of Life that would make man like God,
I guess I failed to point this verse out to you. I'll try to do better next time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by jar, posted 12-10-2007 10:28 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by jar, posted 12-10-2007 10:54 PM imageinvisible has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 302 of 312 (439945)
12-10-2007 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by imageinvisible
12-10-2007 10:46 PM


Re: Why do you insist on making God look stupid?
Too funny. Do you folk ever read the Bible?
Here it is in context:
Genesis 3 writes:
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
That is the friggen Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil not the Tree of Life.
And the Serpent was right, they did NOT die the day they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and their eyes were opened and they did become like God.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by imageinvisible, posted 12-10-2007 10:46 PM imageinvisible has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by imageinvisible, posted 12-10-2007 11:45 PM jar has replied

imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 5919 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 303 of 312 (439956)
12-10-2007 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by jar
12-10-2007 10:54 PM


Re: Why do you insist on making God look stupid?
quote:
There is Nothing that shows there were two kinds of death, NOTHING to show that Adam or Eve were created perfect, NOTHING to show that they were immortal, and NOTHING to suggest that it was eating from the Tree of Life that would make man like God, but instead specific wording that says eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil made them like God.
I question weather I read what you wrote correctly, and vise versa. But as far as nothing to suggest that eating of the tree of life would make them like God...
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."
This curse illustrates that before God cursed them they where imortal and therefore very much like God. Then God cursed them and removed them from the garden so that they could not negate His curse by eating of the fruit of the tree of life.
22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil."
And because God cursed them they will die. Therefore...
"He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.""
This is the whole point behind the 3rd chapter of Genesis.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by jar, posted 12-10-2007 10:54 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by jar, posted 12-10-2007 11:59 PM imageinvisible has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 304 of 312 (439960)
12-10-2007 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by imageinvisible
12-10-2007 11:45 PM


Re: Why do you insist on making God look stupid?
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."
Please show where that says they were immortal. If they were immortal already then why was God so dumb he even made the Tree of Life or even worried that they might eat from it?
And because God cursed them they will die. Therefore...
Huh?
Sorry Charlie but you are just making shit up and playing games with order.
I guess just linking to the story is not enough. Here is the whole Chapter so folk can read it in sequence.
Genesis 3 writes:
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
There is Nothing that shows there were two kinds of death, NOTHING to show that Adam or Eve were created perfect, NOTHING to show that they were immortal, and NOTHING to suggest that it was eating from the Tree of Life that would make man like God, but instead specific wording that says eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil made them like God.
And the Serpent was right, they did NOT die the day they ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, and their eyes were opened and they did become like God.

Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by imageinvisible, posted 12-10-2007 11:45 PM imageinvisible has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by imageinvisible, posted 12-11-2007 12:20 AM jar has not replied

imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 5919 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 305 of 312 (439962)
12-11-2007 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by jar
12-10-2007 11:59 PM


Re: Why do you insist on making God look stupid?
Gen. 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning”the sixth day. (perfect)
Please Show me where in the Bible it says that they where not imortal before God cursed them. Cause before God cursed them He says nothing of death except if they eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.
How old does the Bible say Adam was when he did finally die? Or have you even read that far? Cause if he wasn't perfect from the moment God created him (which is contrary to being created in Gods image, and perfect like God said he was in Gen. 1:31) he sure had some looooooooooooooooooooooooooong telomerase. Are we making any headway?
Edited by imageinvisible, : correction telomeres not telomerase which is an enzime

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by jar, posted 12-10-2007 11:59 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by ringo, posted 12-11-2007 12:41 AM imageinvisible has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 306 of 312 (439963)
12-11-2007 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by imageinvisible
12-11-2007 12:20 AM


Re: Why do you insist on making God look stupid?
imageinvisible writes:
... and perfect like God said he was in Gen. 1:31....
God said no such thing. He said, "good" - not perfect.

Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by imageinvisible, posted 12-11-2007 12:20 AM imageinvisible has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by imageinvisible, posted 12-11-2007 12:51 AM ringo has replied

imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 5919 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 307 of 312 (439964)
12-11-2007 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by ringo
12-11-2007 12:41 AM


Re: Why do you insist on making God look stupid?
Don't go misquoting scripture now Miss Ringo. God said it was "very good." Anything God says is very good...well just compare it to what God says is not good and you get the picture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by ringo, posted 12-11-2007 12:41 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by ringo, posted 12-11-2007 12:57 AM imageinvisible has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 308 of 312 (439965)
12-11-2007 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by imageinvisible
12-11-2007 12:51 AM


Re: Why do you insist on making God look stupid?
imageinvisible writes:
Don't go misquoting scripture now Miss Ringo.
I didn't. I pointed out where you misquoted. That would probably be a sin, though not the first one.

Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by imageinvisible, posted 12-11-2007 12:51 AM imageinvisible has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by imageinvisible, posted 12-11-2007 1:13 AM ringo has not replied

imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 5919 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 309 of 312 (439968)
12-11-2007 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 308 by ringo
12-11-2007 12:57 AM


Re: Why do you insist on making God look stupid?
Now here we have a differing opinion of the word good. Your definition of good is obviously different from mine, and Gods. The words 'very good' being uttered by Almighty God (who is Perfect, good, without blemish, etc. etc. etc.) is in my book, and His, perfect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by ringo, posted 12-11-2007 12:57 AM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by Rahvin, posted 12-11-2007 1:29 AM imageinvisible has replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 310 of 312 (439970)
12-11-2007 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 309 by imageinvisible
12-11-2007 1:13 AM


Re: Why do you insist on making God look stupid?
Now here we have a differing opinion of the word good. Your definition of good is obviously different from mine, and Gods. The words 'very good' being uttered by Almighty God (who is Perfect, good, without blemish, etc. etc. etc.) is in my book, and His, perfect.
That would be an interpretation, not a direct reading of the text.
"Very good" does not literally mean "perfect."
Is your god incapable of communicating clearly? Why use one word when he means another?
Why are you presuming to put words in your god's mouth?
How presumptuous must you be to claim to know what god meant in the book you believe he inspired himself to be literally true?

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by imageinvisible, posted 12-11-2007 1:13 AM imageinvisible has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 311 by imageinvisible, posted 12-11-2007 2:20 AM Rahvin has not replied

imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 5919 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 311 of 312 (439971)
12-11-2007 2:20 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by Rahvin
12-11-2007 1:29 AM


Re: Why do you insist on making God look stupid?
quote:
Is your god incapable of communicating clearly?
Only to those who do not (will not) listen.
quote:
Luke 16:27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him [Lazarus] to my father’s house 28 for I have five brothers so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.'29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.'"
quote:
Why are you presuming to put words in your god's mouth?
I do not, here. It is He who puts words in mine, though you do not hear. How presumptuous must you be to claim to know what God ment in the Bible? People presume all the time, I am just as guilty of this as anyone one else; but I'm sure I'll get no arguement from you on this point. And still no one has been able to do what I asked. Which was to show me the verse that says that Adam and Eve where not imortal before God cursed them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Rahvin, posted 12-11-2007 1:29 AM Rahvin has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 312 of 312 (439973)
12-11-2007 3:10 AM


Closing time
300+ messages. I haven't been following this topic, but I suspect the theme was abandoned a long time ago.
Perhaps someone would like to propose a sequel topic? If you do such, the topic title and opening message should define what the intended theme is.
Will leave open for about 10 minutes to catch any in progress messages, then it's closing time.

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Admin writes:
It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.
There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.
Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source

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