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Author Topic:   Did the sky really go dark as biblical inerrantists insist?
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 1 of 113 (339143)
08-11-2006 7:03 AM


The following is a passage from the gospel of Luke:
23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
If this is to be taken at face value as a real event, then why do we not see any accounts by any other civilization of this happening?
Many other cultures around the world had very advanced astronomy at the time.
The Chinese, Mayans, and Arabs, for example.
Of course the Romans, who were the occupying government in the Bible story and who kept prodigious and meticulous records of everything, have no record at all of such a remarkable and dramatic astronomical event.
If this really happened, why is there absolutely no mention of it by any other nation in the world, especially those who had skilled astronomers?
Biblical accuracy?

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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 113 (340205)
08-15-2006 10:00 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 3 of 113 (340212)
08-15-2006 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
08-11-2006 7:03 AM


schrafinator
23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
Well since somewhat less than half the sphere of earth is in darkness at any given times and at the poles it could well have been darkness for some months when this was written we must assume them to be half right?

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Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 4 of 113 (340225)
08-15-2006 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
08-11-2006 7:03 AM


Another fairytale
Just another fairytale.
The reason it isn;t reported in other cultures is because it didn't happen. It is impossible to have a 3 hour solar eclipse.
Brian.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 5 of 113 (340233)
08-15-2006 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
08-11-2006 7:03 AM


Geesh!
Has it ever occurred to any of you that "over the whole earth" there refers to an eyewitness that saw darkness over all the earth visible to them?
I have never read the passage any other way and have been reading this for years.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 113 (340237)
08-15-2006 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
08-11-2006 7:03 AM


Only an issue for those who wish to make it an issue.
If this is to be taken at face value as a real event, then why do we not see any accounts by any other civilization of this happening?
Many years ago I was one of the members of the Glen Burnie Volunteer Fire Department. One summer afternoon the phone rang, I answered and the voice on the other end said "Hurry! The whole world's on fire."
Click.
Well, it was daytime so using the normal night time test (roll over, put hand on wall, and if wall not hot, fire not near you so go back to sleep) wouldn't work. I did the only thing I could, turned to the watch Captain and said, "Bunky, the whole world's on fire and we better get there quick!"
Being the brilliant commander he was he immediately jumped into action, turned in his old cracked red leather chair, pointed to the youngest, most enthusiastic vollie in the room and said, "Go climb up the hose tower and see what's going on."
Now the hose tower was the place where we hung the fire hoses after use to allow them to dry out. It is about six stories tall, and the only way up was a narrow steel ladder that ran up one side, then through a trap door at the top.
Pretty soon we heard the sound of feet just slapping the rungs as the young man came rushing down the ladder, pounding across the concrete floor and up the steps to the office.
"Man, the whole world's on fire", he panted.
Once he got his breath back we gathered that from the roof of the tower he could see a really wide band of smoke over towards Friendship airport. Since it was impossible to see the source, or the distance and there were two main roads over that way, Bunky sent the field truck over towards one of the roads, Number 1 pumper over towards the better road and notified the surrounding companies that we had what appeared to be a large field fire, location unknown and asked them to send their field trucks and all the Indian Tanks they had available to the station and standby.
Since there was little we could do at the time, most of us just sat around, waited for the help to arrive and one of the trucks to call in to give us a location. The first of the other companies, Marley VFD, showed up and we began filling the Indian Tanks (definitely a device of Satan) they had brought along and lashing them on top the hose bed.
Pretty soon the radio crackled and a voice came through the static, "Holy Sh*T, the whole world's on fire. Come quick." Then silence.
Needless to say, the whole world was not on fire, and the next transmission did tell us which truck and where the fire was and in about fourteen hours it was out and in another few hours all was washed up, hoses hung up to dry, engines hosed down and back in the bays and life went boringly on.
In the excitement of the moment though, folk often describe events in terms of grandure and scope that sometimes exceeds reality.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 7 of 113 (340245)
08-15-2006 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by randman
08-15-2006 10:48 AM


Re: Geesh!
Wouldnt really matter how you read it, a three hour solar eclipse is impossible.
Brian.

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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 8 of 113 (340246)
08-15-2006 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by randman
08-15-2006 10:48 AM


Re: Geesh!
randman
Has it ever occurred to any of you that "over the whole earth" there refers to an eyewitness that saw darkness over all the earth visible to them?
Certainly that is a possibilty but then what is special about it? Darkness by what means? The author is careful to impress the notion of the world being involved as though in response to christ's agony yet is vague on the details of what happened. It could just as easily refer to his own impression that the world had gone dark from the loss of his friend.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 9 of 113 (340248)
08-15-2006 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Brian
08-15-2006 11:05 AM


Re: Geesh!
So? You ever been in really, really thick clouds. What about clouds of intense smoke?
Moreover, there was quite a bit of spiritual activity going on. You guys just don't seem to understand that your ideas of what is possible are outdated. The more we learn, the more we learn lots of impossible things are possible.
Classical physics says, for example, that if you roll a ball off a table, absent some other force, it will always fall, and has to fall. QM says there is always the slight chance it will roll off into the air and roll back.
Classical physics says if you throw a ball against a wall, it will be bounce back if it doesn't break the wall. QM says there is always the slight chance the ball will go right through the wall and appear on the other side.
Classical physics says a physical object cannot be in more than one place at the same time. QM says that some objects can coexist in a state of superposition.
There's a lot we don't know. A solar eclipse could be possible. More likely, it was a combination of both spiritual and natural forces, so that the clouds were darker than would be the case otherwise due to the sins of the entire timeline of humanity and perhaps other worlds being placed on Jesus during that time.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 10 of 113 (340249)
08-15-2006 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by sidelined
08-15-2006 11:09 AM


Re: Geesh!
He physically noticed that it became very dark all around. Pretty easy to understand actually.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 11 of 113 (340252)
08-15-2006 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
08-11-2006 7:03 AM


Maybe a heavy thunderstorm
23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
That seems like an apt description of what we often see here in the midwest. The local radio station would likely be announcing that a severe thunderstorm warning, or sometimes a tornado warning, was in effect.
Sure, "over all the earth" seems like overstatement, but that's the kind of metaphoric description that people sometimes use. Why not take "over all the earth" as meaning "as far as the eye can see."

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LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4676 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 12 of 113 (340314)
08-15-2006 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by randman
08-15-2006 10:48 AM


Re: Geesh!
randman writes:
Has it ever occurred to any of you that "over the whole earth" there refers to an eyewitness that saw darkness over all the earth visible to them?
Does this same logic apply to the "whole earth" being flooded and Noah being saved?
Does this same logic apply to "two of every animal" being put on the ark?
How about Christ dying on the cross to save "the whole earth"?
I guess if that logic doesn't apply in the instances listed above, then your supposition about the darkness needs to be supported by some Bible passage that indicates its limited scope.

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 13 of 113 (340361)
08-15-2006 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by randman
08-15-2006 11:11 AM


Re: Geesh!
quote:
There's a lot we don't know. A solar eclipse could be possible. More likely, it was a combination of both spiritual and natural forces, so that the clouds were darker than would be the case otherwise due to the sins of the entire timeline of humanity and perhaps other worlds being placed on Jesus during that time.
For the sake of argument, I am allowing that the sun, indeed, did darken over the entire earth, by whatever means you wish to claim.
If it did, though, why wasn't such an unusual, singular event recorded by any other civilization on Earth?
Also, why wasn't this astounding phenomena recorded in the other Gospels, either?
Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 14 of 113 (340363)
08-15-2006 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by nwr
08-15-2006 11:24 AM


Re: Maybe a heavy thunderstorm
quote:
That seems like an apt description of what we often see here in the midwest. The local radio station would likely be announcing that a severe thunderstorm warning, or sometimes a tornado warning, was in effect.
Sure, "over all the earth" seems like overstatement, but that's the kind of metaphoric description that people sometimes use. Why not take "over all the earth" as meaning "as far as the eye can see."
I am happy with that interpretation, but it does add to what is stated in the Bible.

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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 15 of 113 (340379)
08-15-2006 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by nator
08-15-2006 5:59 PM


Re: Maybe a heavy thunderstorm
..., but it does add to what is stated in the Bible.
Sure, if you make allowance for inevitable rhetorical hype. A modern preacher might say something similar in his sermon about a contemporary event. This sort of colorful description is a common aspect of the rhetorical style of many orators and preachers.
It's only a problem for people who want to be excessively literalistic in their reading.

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