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Author Topic:   Secularly Verifiable Evidence for Biblical Inerrancy
SirPimpsalot 
Inactive Member


Message 61 of 99 (152280)
10-23-2004 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by jar
10-23-2004 11:11 AM


Re: The Science of the Bible
Well, it's pretty obvious that GOD didn't.
Genesis 1
1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Notice that this is daylight and night.
Day and Night. Light and Dark.
But where is the sun?
14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19: And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Why the sun shows up several days later.
You're making the assertion that Biblical scribes couldn't figure out what most of us figures out by the time we're three..........this is ridiculous and desperate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 10-23-2004 11:11 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 10-23-2004 5:28 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
SirPimpsalot 
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 99 (152282)
10-23-2004 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Coragyps
10-23-2004 11:13 AM


False. Man is far more closely related to other great apes than, off the top of my head:
*aardvarks, echidnas, and platypuses are to anything else at all
*two-toed sloths are to three-toed sloths, or either of them are to anteaters or armadillos
* the pronghorn antelope is to any other ungulate.
Back this up.
*the three species of elephant are to anything else
Emphasis on THREE species of elephant.......

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Coragyps, posted 10-23-2004 11:13 AM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Coragyps, posted 10-23-2004 1:42 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
fnord
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 99 (152283)
10-23-2004 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 12:51 PM


Re: The Science of the Bible
Once again, from the anthropological view point, the Earth IS immovable........
....and from the antropological viewpoint, the earth doesn't hang unsupported in space; it's solid underneath us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 12:51 PM SirPimpsalot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 1:14 PM fnord has not replied

  
SirPimpsalot 
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 99 (152284)
10-23-2004 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Coragyps
10-23-2004 11:52 AM


Re: The Science of the Bible
I'm not sure what you mean by that, other than "Is not!"
Meaning, you cannot scientifically prove that miracles haven't occured.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Coragyps, posted 10-23-2004 11:52 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by crashfrog, posted 10-23-2004 3:50 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
SirPimpsalot 
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 99 (152285)
10-23-2004 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by fnord
10-23-2004 1:12 PM


Re: The Science of the Bible
....and from the antropological viewpoint, the earth doesn't hang unsupported in space; it's solid underneath us.
But what does the Earth ITSELF rest on? Anthrpologically, nothing. Not a giant turtle, etc., as previous cultures proposed......

This message is a reply to:
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SirPimpsalot 
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 99 (152287)
10-23-2004 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by PaulK
10-23-2004 11:35 AM


Re: The Science of the Bible
2) "before" is a temporal concept. It therefore cannot apply to something "outside of time"
Right......the Bible was suggesting that Jesus time-traveled.........
3) Why would this man say that the Earth was hanging on anything ?
Because, without knowledge of gravitational orbits, how can you state that something rests on nothing? You can't. That's why MOST ancient cultures asserted that the Earth was resting on a giant turtle......or that Atlas was carrying it......
Come on you can't really claim that this is any real indication of adcanced knowledge.
I'm not claiming advanced knowledge, I'm claiming inspiration from a divine being who knew all.....
4) So your argument is that the Hebrews were too stupid to tell the difference between a circle and a sphere ?
Let me get this straight........even in the day to day language of most people TODAY, the Earth is not a "sphere".......but the Hebrews were certainly scientifically astute enough to apply to correct scientific terminology to the shape of the Earth........
......however, the Hebrews WEREN'T smart enough to figure out that when the sun goes down, that's the end of the day.
The Hebrews certainly DID have vocabulary that would have let them indicate that the world was spherical
Again, we do too......but the MODERN layman never does so, just like the ancient layman didn't.......
5) I'm not ducking the other two - but the origin of the Tigris and Euphrates is NOT in North Africa - the rivers don't even reach there, they flow into the Persian Gulf, from a northerly direction.
Yes, TODAY, this may be true........but rivers change a lot over the course of thousands of years......
Noah would have been better advised to move to higher ground
With his wife, his sons, their wives, their children, and all their livestock, etc.? How fast do you think he could move to higher ground?
and he certainly wouldn't need to take every "kind" of animal since most of them would survive just fine, thank you, without the ark.
If I recall correctly, the Bible makes it clear that God didn;t literally mean EVERY animal, as God lists the animals to be gathered at some point in time and he only names domestic stock........aka, every kind of animal useful to anthropos, man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by PaulK, posted 10-23-2004 11:35 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by CK, posted 10-23-2004 1:37 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied
 Message 72 by PaulK, posted 10-23-2004 2:24 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied
 Message 86 by MangyTiger, posted 10-23-2004 10:56 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4153 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 67 of 99 (152288)
10-23-2004 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 1:31 PM


Re: The Science of the Bible
Is this a wind-up? Are you honestly claiming that most people when asked would describe the earth as a circle rather than a sphere or even a ball?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 1:31 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
SirPimpsalot 
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 99 (152290)
10-23-2004 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by fnord
10-23-2004 12:07 PM


- these holy men, God inspired and all, wrote circle
- but they meant sphere
Right......just like modern man would say "round" when they meant "sphere".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by fnord, posted 10-23-2004 12:07 PM fnord has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 1:43 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 760 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 69 of 99 (152291)
10-23-2004 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 1:09 PM


Back this up.
You can start here:
ADW: Mammalia: INFORMATION
You will find that, for instance, aardvarks are all alone in the order Tubulidentata and that echidnas and platypuses, though both in the order Monotremata, are in different families. The order Primates, to which you and I belong, has 233 species in 13 families: our family, Hominidae, has five species.
Emphasis on THREE species of elephant....
Oh. I didn't know three was "a multitude." Sorry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 1:09 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
SirPimpsalot 
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 99 (152292)
10-23-2004 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 1:42 PM


Knight, see above.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 1:42 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5898 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 71 of 99 (152294)
10-23-2004 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 12:57 PM


Re: The Science of the Bible
Hi SPAL:
I don't know about the Tibetans, but the flooding is thought to have effected much of South America......in fact, it's been proposed that the flooding is what caused the extinction of American elephants and other such animals.........there's even cause to believe that there was a pre-Incan Meso-American civilization established which was obliterated by these floods........
Neat. The Pleistocene extinctions are a special interest of mine. Could you refer me to a website or article that states flooding was the cause of any mass extinction event in North or South America? This would be a new one to add to the current "big three" hypotheses (climate change, blitzkreig and hyperdisease - i.e., big chill, big kill and big ill )
In addition, although there's quite a bit of evidence of humans in South America dating back (depending on who you ask) 8-15,000 years (assuming Monte Verde was pre-Clovis, which is in dispute), but no evidence that they died out at any point, I'd appreciate any more info you could provide concerning the putative flooding of South America as well.
Thanks.
It's even on topic, for once.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 12:57 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17826
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 72 of 99 (152298)
10-23-2004 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 1:31 PM


Re: The Science of the Bible
2) It's not my fault if what you say doesn't make sense.
3) Resting on nothing makes exactly as much sense as hanging from nothing. So it seems clear that we have no evidence of "inspiration" here.
4) In the language of people today the world is often described as a globe. It is never described as a circle except possibly by Flat-Earth proponents.
Oh and Genesis 1 associates the Sun with the day - it "rules" the day as the moon rules the night. What it never does is state that the sun is the source of daylight.
5) Rivers change their course but they don't move their sources long distances from their course as you are trying to suggest. Try looking at an atlas before embarrassing yourself further.
As for your "flood" I would say that Noah could move to higher ground far more easily than he could build and stock a massive boat as the Bible describes. And I think you will find that the Bible does not provide any clear limits on what life should be taken on board - certainly "unclean" animals were. And with all air-breathing life except that on the ark supposedly being killed the natural reading is that the ark has to accomodate all of that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 1:31 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2328 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 73 of 99 (152307)
10-23-2004 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 12:42 PM


In the past, an anatomic hemispherectomy COULD involve the removal of a large portion (if not all) of an affected hemisphere, but only if tests show the hemisphere to be already functioning so poorly that the procedure would not mean a loss of function. Presently, this procedure can involve removal of a PORTION the hemisphere, but once again a portion so affected by the epilepsy as to be basically useless anyway.
There have been some studies at centers such as Johns Hopkins concerning fully removing an affected hemisphere, but only in children who's epilepsy is severely reducing their quality of life.
ALL patients who have undergone this radical a procedure have partial paralysis on the side of the body opposite the removed portion.
A functional hemispherectomy is the disconnection of one side of the brain from the other. This is the "standard" hemispherectomy performed today.

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 12:42 PM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 74 of 99 (152313)
10-23-2004 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 7:31 AM


No, I'm making the claim that the Bible speaks scientific truth from an anthropological point of view..
That's not the claim you made in post 1:
quote:
I was wondering what everyone thought about portions in the Bible which can be used as objective evidence for its inerrancy. There are many instances in the Bible where scientific fact is spoken before science discovered them to be fact.......
You didn't open the topic to discuss things that could be true from an "anthropological point of view", whatever that means. (I would point out that since humans do science, all the findings of science are from an "anthropological point of view" anyway.) You opened the topic to discuss, and I quote, "objective evidence for its inerrancy."
So, which is it? Are the scientific facts in the Bible supposed to be objective or subjective? You seem to switch back and forth whenever it suits you.
So does English, but you ask the average guy on the street what shape the Earth is, he'll say "round" (which can define many non-spherical shapes) or "a circle".
Uh-huh. And you know this because you asked? Well, I call bullshit. Show me the survey that you're using to substantiate this point; I think you're making it up.
Yes, let's just ignore half the rivers mentioned because it's more convenient......
I ignored them because I've never heard of them, and don't know where they are.
Do you know where they are? Can you tell me, please?
not to mention that I'm sure aspects of those rivers have changed over the last several thousands of years.
What "change in aspect" would cause them to flow in a different continent, separated by two different seas? If the T and the E are in the Middle East, and the other two are in North Africa, you're looking at an Eden the size of China. Of course, you haven't even bothered to find out where any of those rivers actually are, now have you? It's enough, I suppose, that someone told you in passng that Eden was in North Africa, without supporting that contentious statement in any way.
Um, yeah, world wide floodings occured during the glacial meltings...........
No world-wide floodings have ever occured, ever. The existence of life on Earth right now proves that all floodings have been local since the dawn of life.
I'd say a lake turning into the black sea would fit ANYONE'S definition of "flood".........
A world-wide flood? Since that's what we were talking about.
but not others, such as "And God said, 'Let there be light', and there was light." How many different ways can that be interpretted?
Literally. God speaks light into being.
That's not what happened - for starters, there doesn't appear to be any God at all to do the speaking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 7:31 AM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 75 of 99 (152314)
10-23-2004 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by SirPimpsalot
10-23-2004 10:25 AM


Knight, I can't find my copy of Manifold Time, but at least the latter is present there..........he use to work for NASA, if I'm not mistaken, and has multiple degrees.
In mathematics and engineering, not science.
He has no scientific journal output that I can find, however. He's not, unfortunately, in any way a scientist - just a science-minded writer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by SirPimpsalot, posted 10-23-2004 10:25 AM SirPimpsalot has not replied

  
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