Did Jesus exist, Part II

As jar pointed out in Message 266, your aim was off

Let's agree that some aspects of the man require faith, but we do have some historical evidence of his existence as per the thread topic.Correct me, if mistaken, but I believe it was you who believes that Shakyamuni (spelling?), the Buddah existed historically. Surely if you can believe that you can agree that Jesus existed historically.

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Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

You really do need to learn to use the proper reply buttons.

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According to Sherwin-White, the writings of Herodotus enable us to determine the rate at which legend accumulates, and the tests show that even two generations is too short a time span to allow legendary tendencies to wipe out the hard core of historical facts.

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Sounds nice, but what does it mean to "wipe out the hard core of historical facts"? The question is whether or not there is evidence that Jesus existed, or whether or not there is evidence that Jesus did not exist. Is there or is there not good, verifiable evidence that Jesus existed? Is there or is there not good historical evidence that Jesus did not exist?

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

I believe Jesus lived as an actual person. I believe that he was divine.BUT...I have considerable body of evidence that the Buddha lived as a historical person. There it's not a matter of belief but rather the weight of evidence.When it comes to Jesus, there really is a dirth of evidence that he really existed.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Perhaps you could open a thread on that considerable body of evidence to see how it compares with what we have on Jesus.

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Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

We had one. I'll see if I can find it. But outside the Bible there is really nothing on Jesus.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I suggest reading the Sherwin-White work and Michael Grant work cited. I am not going to type a book into the internet. I would also read about Sir William Ramsey's investigation concerning Acts.This message has been edited by JJMorgan, 01-15-2006 10:43 PM

I suggest reading this work: Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels (Paperback) by Michael Grant Amazon.com

TO: JarYOu wrote:

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But outside the Bible there is really nothing on Jesus.

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Do you have any quotes of historians making this comment? If you do, it should be easy to find a history professor who denies Jesus existed which is something you haven't been able to do.

Ken,Please read this msg http://< !--UB EvC Forum: Smoking-Gun Evidence of Man-Monkey Kindred: Episode II... Tails -->http://EvC Forum: Smoking-Gun Evidence of Man-Monkey Kindred: Episode II... Tails and let me know that you have read and understood it.Your old behaviors will not be tolerated here again.

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http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Kenplease read what I write.This whole thread has been on looking for evidence related to that. There is the Bible. There are some questionable quotes from Josephus. There are the ones from Tacitus. That's about it in the first couple hundred years following Jesus life.Do you know of any others? If so, bring them up so we can discuss them.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

TO:JarI don't think you have even read the Christian Apologetics 101 literature.For example, did Polycarp refer to Jesus in his letters? (Polycarp was a disciple of the Apostle John). Did Polycarp swear allegiance to Jesus at his martyrdom?

The Letter of Polycarp to the FilippiansHere is an excerpt:Translation:
Polycarp, and the older people who are with him,
to the God's assembly which is staying at Filippi:
Mercy and peace be multiplied to you from Almighty God, and from the Lord Anointed Jesus, our Saviour.ONEI have rejoiced greatly together with you in our Lord, Anointed Jesus, because (as it was appropriate for you) you have followed the example of true love and have accompanied those who were bound in chains, the ornaments of holy people, and which are indeed the crowns of the true chosen ones of God and of our Lord; and because the strong root of your trust, spoken of in days long past, remains even until now and produces fruit to our Lord, Anointed Jesus, who suffered for our sins even to the point of death. "God raised him from the dead, having loosed the suffering of Hades." "You trust in him, though now you do not see him, and in trusting, you rejoice with unspeakable joy and full of glory." Into this joy many desire to enter, knowing that "by generosity you are saved, not of deeds," but by God's wishes through Anointed Jesus.from: http://www.friktech.com/rel/pcarp.htm

TO: JarIt was very easy to find one on short notice and away from my library. I would suggest reading the writings of Dr. Habermas and maybe a introductory work like Josh McDowell's New Evidence that Demands a Verdict if you want all the references to Jesus or the number of references to Jesus.I am retiring from EVCForum. It is 11:15 pm where I am.

Well, we really don't know for sure. What little we know about Polycarp is from mention in the epistles of St. Ignatius and the one Epistle to the Philippians (both soyurces that have been questioned as to their authenticity) and a few other references. As to the story of his allegiance at martyrdom, what does that mean other than the fact that he believed in Jesus. That's simply not the issue. There is certainly no way that Polycarp could have ever met Jesus that I know of.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion