The "Circle of the Earth"

The autographs are irrelevant. We can understand what we do have either literally or non-literally. If our understanding isn't exactly what the authors intended, so what?The question of this thread is: Can we conclude from Isaiah 40:22 that the authors knew the earth is a sphere? The best answer (in my opinion) is: No, we can not. The "circle of the earth" is what God would see from His vantage point. Either a flat disk or the "top view" of a sphere would appear circular.

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-- Joseph Goebbels
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Ringo, There is simply not enough FACT to conclude anything from Isaiah 40:22 except GOD is being exalted.Edited by trossthree, : No reason given.

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Exactly.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
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Isaiah lived in about the 8th Century BCE. At that time the most common depiction of the Earth was a flat disk floating on and surrounded on all sides by the water.The first signs we have of a different model come a few hundred years later in the 6th Century BCE.Unless you can provide some other information, what reason is there to think that the depiction in Isaiah is not similar to the one generally accepted at that period?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Jar, Sources? Who is to say that: "Isaiah" in fact thought the Earth was a circle; just because it was common then according to what we know now. In this case above we have probability, on probability, on probability! The only conclusion we can have in this case is that there is not enough evidence to conclude "what Isaiah knew about the earth".

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sourcemoremore

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Jar,So, now we know what other people thought of the Earth then but how does that directly prove what Isaiah thought?Edited by trossthree, : No reason given.

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Okay, we know that the general view of the Earth at the time was of a circle.Guess what Isaiah wrote? Note: "CIRCLE."Unless you can show some reason to think Isaiah held some differing view than what was common at the time shouldn't we assume the most likely?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

jar,I have already glossed over the fact that the Bible can't be interpreted literally.P.S. I don't think you're going to accept the Bible can't be interpreted literally but that is fine because that is your choice. However, how is it philosophical to trust something that is known to have many errors?Edited by trossthree, : No reason given.Edited by trossthree, : No reason given.

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Yes, I regularly get upset with fundies. my life is at an end. Oh right, so the Bible is worthless? We just ignore it?Are you saying that there is no reliable history at all in the Bible, we cannot use it to support external texts? Why?What does Jesus offer you that Osiris doesn't? LOL So we cannot trust the Bible, yet it is the primary source for Jesus the guy that you choose to believe in!Let me get this right. You say the Bible is sh*t, but you believe in a guy from the Bible. Have you any idea how moronic that sounds? Of course it is, I even pointed that out to you. It is a very well known paradox that took you days to figure out. So what is moving the rock?A hyster can move a rock by itself? LOL a metaphor.For the love of Jesus it isn't a metaphor, you need to listen a bit more to your English teacher.Anyway, the device is not an animate entity, it cannot lift anything. I told you not to fry your brain because it is a well known paradox, but you choose to make a tit of yourself. Why? But you are barely literate, why should I listen to you? And evidence has no place in your particular world? It isn't? Jesus, you are illiterate, I'm so sorry, I shouldn't make fun of the afflicted. Well you have no idea what a metaphor is, and you don't know how to spell the plural of 'fundy', you choose to make it a 'possessive' rather than a plural, and you really do not know what a paradox is.No wonder you choose to believe in Jesus, you are exactly what is required to accept the Jesus myth.Are you in high school? So why do you choose to believe in a character from this book that cannot be interpreted literally?I noticed you blanked the questions on what we cannot take literally from my earlier post.I'll narrow it down for you. Can we take Jesus' resurrection literally?

I find that an amazing assertion and would love someday to hear your explanation of how you arrived at such a conclusion.But what we are discussing here is the passage in Isaiah 20.As I have pointed out and supported, at the time Isaiah 20 was written, the general concept of the earth was a disk floating on water, surrounded by the sea. The idea of the earth as a spherical object did not become popular until many hundreds of years later.So it seems likely to me, that the author(s) of Isaiah used the familiar and contemporary concept of the earth to express a theological issue, the idea of God being above or outside of the universe as known.That does not mean he did not think that the earth floated on a sea and was surrounded by water. In fact, unless some other evidence is presented it would be silly to think he held any other intent.The Bible is not some monolithic work where everything has but one purpose. It tells us many things, in this passage we see both indications of the theology of an era as well as the physical understanding of a people.If you look at the work solely through the eyes of theology, you lose all understanding of the reality of the era, the struggles of a people to understand the universe they lived in.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Brian, Poor Brian. Why do you consider me a fundy? The Bible is a book that contains scripture that was hand copied for thousands of years by historical people that we do not know. The Bible is also known to have many errors when you compare the scripture to other scriptures(manuscrpits/translations).http://EvC Forum: Inerrant Bible Manuscripts? -->EvC Forum: Inerrant Bible Manuscripts? I never said that Jesus offered anything more. I believe that scripture contains a spiritual message. The spiritual message is not restrained to simple literal interpretations. I am not a denominational Christian and I don't walk around with a picket sign "BELIEVE IN JESUS OR GO TO HELL". I am going to level with you Brian. I have no idea how old you are or what educational background you have but I will say in the past I have found your posts interesting. Now for you to result to insulting my intelligence because we disagree is adolescent. The hyster is being controlled by an individual(i.e. god) but the hyster is doing the work. The devise does not have to be an animate entity it can be used to do the work. I am showing the error for your "paradox". So, really, it is not a paradox either. Look I am not trying to make this personal, so I am not sure why you result to insulting me. To answer your question: because anything is possible. So, you are an example of a literate person? A literate person insults other people to achieve his goals? evidence is simply an indication it does not prove anything. No. People of the spirit have revelations. So, what are you saying? Metaphor:I am glad you spent all those years under the table hitting your head. =). However, just because you like to do that does not mean other people do. Paradox: If you were not so intelligent I would need God. LOL. I graduated from high school 8 years ago. Maybe but it is not important that to is a metaphor. I am sorry if I missed one of your prudent questions. Let me stand up while you bow down. LOL. Can we stop now?Edited by KISS, : No reason given.

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KISS

Jar,I respect your post I will respond later I have some things I have to do. Sorry.

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No one says the circle of the earth is some merkabah. The flying throne of God is what sits on the circle of the earth when in the area. The circle may be a path, like an orbit. You are not the only one that can infer meaning. It depends on what you think it is parallel TO, and why, whether it has any merit. I use the other parts of the bible as a basis, for my interpretational orbit. If you can't do that, yes, I think your efforts are as described. You know this how??? By the way, the word they used for Holy spirit as a he, could be used as a she as well. What point is that?? I point, you point, we all point to no point here, apparently. Nice try. I prefer a more well rounded approach to the circle of the earth. Having God sit on a path around earth, in His mobile throne fits the bill. It is a simple point. A clear point, and one that fits the bible. Your aversion to anything that sounds like a UFO cannot be the only guide through the mysteries of the bible.Edited by simple, : No reason given.

Jar, When I fix a java issue with IE on my PC we will have a conversation. Ok. Ok. Ok. Ok. As I read your post I seem to agree with you. However, one must also take into account for the many errors in the Bible.Edited by KISS, : No reason given.

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KISS