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Author
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Topic: Why do Christians make God out to be dumb?
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portmaster1000
Inactive Member
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Message 181 of 259 (145095)
09-27-2004 3:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 180 by cduben
09-24-2004 10:21 PM
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Re: Simple question
cduben writes: When God created man, He planted in him a desire to do good. The sin nature was at that time nonexistant. and then
cduben writes: When man first sinned, he separated himself from God and was bound to a sin nature. These two statements seem contradictory to me. If orginal man did not have sin in his nature how could he have ever sinned for the first time? This has been discussed in other threads but what verses are you referencing when you say that "sin nature" was nonexistant? thanx PM1K
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 180 by cduben, posted 09-24-2004 10:21 PM | | cduben has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 182 by cduben, posted 09-28-2004 10:29 AM | | portmaster1000 has replied |
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cduben
Inactive Member
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Re: Simple question
These two statements seem contradictory to me. If orginal man did not have sin in his nature how could he have ever sinned for the first time? I understand your confusion. I'll try to explain this as best I can. God did not bring evil into the world. However, He gave us free will to decide between good and evil. By "sin nature", I mean slavery to sin. Before Adam had the sin nature, he still had a choice; however, he could just as easily have chosen not to sin. Without free will, we would have no ability to do right or wrong. Without free will, there is no right and wrong. When God created Adam, he gave him the choice to do right or wrong. Yes, God could have not put the forbidden tree in the garden. But then Adam would have nothing to resist; nothing to win against.
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Message 183 of 259 (145336)
09-28-2004 11:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 182 by cduben
09-28-2004 10:29 AM
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Re: Simple question
cduben writes: God did not bring evil into the world. Isaiah 45:7 writes: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
"Good evening. I'm playing the role of Jesus; a man once portrayed on the big screen by Jeffery Hunter. You may remember him as the actor who was replaced by William Shatner on Star Trek. Apparently Mr. Hunter was good enough to die for our sins, but not quite up to the task of seducing green women." -Stewie Griffin
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 182 by cduben, posted 09-28-2004 10:29 AM | | cduben has replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 504 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Re: Simple question
I thought god said something like that. I was looking for it in my bible, but damn you beat me to it.
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November! Why? Bush is a right wing nutcase.
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Re: Simple question
I am ten ninja.
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dpardo
Inactive Member
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Message 186 of 259 (145367)
09-28-2004 1:21 PM
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Dan Carroll, How does God create evil? Did you find any examples so that we might examine them?
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portmaster1000
Inactive Member
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Message 187 of 259 (145374)
09-28-2004 1:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 182 by cduben
09-28-2004 10:29 AM
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Free Will
cduben writes: God did not bring evil into the world. However, He gave us free will to decide between good and evil. If we have a free will independent of God, then we can choose to do good over evil without help from God, right? If so, then this contradicts your original answer to my "simple question. Please clarify PM1K
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 182 by cduben, posted 09-28-2004 10:29 AM | | cduben has not replied |
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Message 188 of 259 (145388)
09-28-2004 2:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 186 by dpardo
09-28-2004 1:21 PM
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How does God create evil? Beats me. Ask him, he's the one who said he creates evil, not me.
"Good evening. I'm playing the role of Jesus; a man once portrayed on the big screen by Jeffery Hunter. You may remember him as the actor who was replaced by William Shatner on Star Trek. Apparently Mr. Hunter was good enough to die for our sins, but not quite up to the task of seducing green women." -Stewie Griffin
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 186 by dpardo, posted 09-28-2004 1:21 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 504 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 189 of 259 (145408)
09-28-2004 4:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 186 by dpardo
09-28-2004 1:21 PM
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dpardo writes: Dan Carroll, How does God create evil? Did you find any examples so that we might examine them?
I'm going to follow Reverend Lovejoy's example by telling you to read your bible.
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November! Why? Bush is a right wing nutcase.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 186 by dpardo, posted 09-28-2004 1:21 PM | | dpardo has not replied |
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cduben
Inactive Member
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Re: Simple questione
Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) writes: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. The verse you mentioned is part of a larger passage that discusses the sovereignty of God. The message is that God uses evil people or evil circumstances to accomplish His will. (An example of this is God using the Chaldeans to punish His people, who had turned from Him.) But it really doesn't say that God created evil. Furthermore, the Bible contains no record of God doing such a thing. This message has been edited by cduben, 10-01-2004 05:18 PM
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Message 191 of 259 (146576)
10-01-2004 5:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 190 by cduben
10-01-2004 5:29 PM
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Re: Simple questione
cduben writes: But it really doesn't say that God created evil. Dude.
God writes: I make peace, and create evil. It really does. This message has been edited by Dan Carroll, 10-01-2004 04:37 PM
"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars." -George Meyer, Simpsons writer
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 190 by cduben, posted 10-01-2004 5:29 PM | | cduben has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 192 by cduben, posted 10-01-2004 6:07 PM | | Dan Carroll has replied |
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cduben
Inactive Member
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Re: Simple questione
No, not necessarily. Evil is alternately translated as calamity, disaster, and woe. Back when the KJV was written, evil had a much broader meaning.
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Message 193 of 259 (146591)
10-01-2004 6:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 192 by cduben
10-01-2004 6:07 PM
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Re: Simple questione
Alternately translated by whom? I thought Bible was inerrant. Are we saying mistranslations creeped in, now?
"If I had to write ten jokes about potholders, I don't think I could do it. But I could write ten jokes about Catholicism in the next twenty minutes. I guess I'm drawn to religion because I can be provocative without harming something people really care about, like their cars." -George Meyer, Simpsons writer
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 192 by cduben, posted 10-01-2004 6:07 PM | | cduben has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 195 by cduben, posted 10-01-2004 6:24 PM | | Dan Carroll has replied |
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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2330 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: 05-10-2003
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Message 194 of 259 (146596)
10-01-2004 6:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 192 by cduben
10-01-2004 6:07 PM
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Re: Simple questione
Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible
adj 1) bad, evil a) bad, disagreeable, malignant b) bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery) c) evil, displeasing d) bad (of its kind - land, water, etc) e) bad (of value) f) worse than, worst (comparison) g) sad, unhappy h) evil (hurtful) i) bad, unkind (vicious in disposition) j) bad, evil, wicked (ethically) 1) in general, of persons, of thoughts 2) deeds, actions n m 2) evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity a) evil, distress, adversity b) evil, injury, wrong c) evil (ethical) n f 3) evil, misery, distress, injury a) evil, misery, distress b) evil, injury, wrong c) evil (ethical)
Authorized version KJV translation count - used total of 663 times evil 442,
wickedness 59,wicked 25, mischief 21, hurt 20, bad 13, trouble 10, sore 9, affliction 6, ill 5, adversity 4, favoured 3, harm 3, naught 3, noisome 2, grievous 2, sad 2, misc 34; 663
Asgara "Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it" http://asgarasworld.bravepages.comhttp://perditionsgate.bravepages.com
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 192 by cduben, posted 10-01-2004 6:07 PM | | cduben has not replied |
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cduben
Inactive Member
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Re: Simple questione
Alternately translated by whom? I thought Bible was inerrant. Are we saying mistranslations creeped in, now? Hello?
cduben writes: Back when the KJV was written, evil had a much broader meaning. Uh...okay. I'm not sure I can make it any clearer than that.
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