Good Bible Prophecies List

Unless they have several satellites, you'd be right about that. TV broadcast satellites have to be geosynchonous earth orbit (GEO) to provide constant service, so that they remain over one point on the earth's surface, over the equator.That means that likely, the Sky Angel satellite is broadcasting only to the continental US, Canada, central america, and some of south america. Probably in English and Spanish. The spherical Earth prevents the signal from reaching to anywhere else.As you say, that doesn't sound like fulfilment of the prophecy to me.

You dont see a problem with 'predicting' an event 40 years AFTER it happened?It is serious enough to take the prediction of the Fall of the Temple as a redacted prophecy, and therefore not a prophecy at all. It is a typical tactic of whoever wrote Matthew's gospel. The Gospel of Matthew is packed with non existant prophecies, the 'Nazarene', the 'out of egypt', the 'weepng in Ramah', are only a few examples. I would take anything this author wrote with a large dose of salt. I sometimes wonder why this is even incuded inthe New tetament as it is such a disaster of a text.Anyway, if I said to you that I predicted that the Berlin Wall would fall in November 1989, would you take me seriously?You see writing about something 40 years after it happened is not greatly convincing to me. What would have been convincing is Jesus appearing in front of the Sanhedrin after he 'died'.Brian.

[quote]Mr. P. sir, I didn't flat out deny your allegations about the south.[.quote]I would expect no less. It's twenty six years since I first took part in a public protest against slavery in Sudan - at that time the worst culprits were Christians in the south who sold Muslim and Animist captives into slavery in Uganda and the Central African Republic. More recently, Sudanese Animist refugees in Uganda have been attacked by the Lord's Resistance Army, who wish to run Uganda on the basis of the 10 Commandments. Up to date information on this soi-disant Christian organisation's rape, torture, chattel slavery and kidnapping can be found at Lord's Resistance Army (LRA)

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I simply asked you to document them.

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I did. I specifically named the US State Department's Country Reports, especially that for 1990. This remains a more specific and less partisan reference than any you have delivered on this issue so far.

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My sources are varied, but the main source is Voice of the Martyrs who documents monthly all that's going on over there.

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All that's going on? Including persecution, kidnapping, slavery and coerced conversion by Christian's? I checked out the site and found none of those.

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As for your conscription thing, our own government did some of that in WWII. Even the draft is conscription in a sense, and in wartime where the SPLA in desperation, are fighting for their very survival over death or slavery, you do what you need to do or die.

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So you don't object to the northern Islamic government in Sudan forcibly conscripting minors either?

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In Revelation 14:6 we read of an angel "flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to the nations." On my house I have two dishes. One is dish network and the other a Dominion Sky Angel dish. The Sky Angel dish is for Christian programing.

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So you're saying angels are satellites? Do you think it really fulfills a prophecy if something fulfills the imagined terms of a prophecy by accident of name, or by deliberate naming? So all those prophecies about Jerusalem could refer to Jerusalem, Texas? And obviously the weeping in Ramah refers to Ramah, New Mexico.I suppose we have to hand to the prophecy-watchers, they have more imagination than a surrealist on speed. That's why every generation for the last 1900 years has found compelling evidence that the prophecies have been fulfilled and that the end times are just round the next corner folks - but don't let that stop you donating!

Hideho. How's he gonna get all the folks around the planet to hear his shouts. GONG!!............Next...........

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Hideho. How's he gonna get all the folks around the planet to hear his shouts. GONG!!............Next...........

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You don't have much faith in God, if you think such a little matter would be a barrier to His messengers.

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Finding a fulfillment 'in reality' isn't really the point. Finding a fulfillment that resembles the prophecy in enough ways that the connection is unequivocable is the point.

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You haven't done this. In fact, the 'fulfillment' doesn't resempble the prophecy much at all. The text talks about angels around the throne of God. Reading the surrounding verses tells us that these angels were capable of possessing qualities such as virginity, lack-of-guile, faultlessness. They 'follow the lamb' and were 'redeemed from man' being the 'first fruits unto God.' In other words, we get a definition of 'angel' from the author. Sound like a satelite to you?

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Now, the verse in question...

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And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, ...

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The creature is talking to every nation, and kindred, and to every people in every tongue. Does your satelite broadcast in every tongue? Does every nation hear the word? I'd be willing to be that this service doesn't exist in most of the world? I'll have to look that up. Does everyone hear the preaching? If not, it can't be the fullfillment of this prophecy.

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1. You have two locations here in this text. The 144 thousand virgins are not angels. They are Jewish people, 12000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. They appear on Mt Zion, the temple mount at Jerusalem. Whether they actually appear in heaven before Gods throne is unclear. It says where ever Christ the Lamb is they are with him. He and they are seen on Mt Zion which again is the Temple Mt.2. The Greek word aggelon (angel) means messenger and though it usually refers to an angelic being, it can refer to another type of messenger. As for the satelite, words do emit from it as it flies through heaven.3. The harpers are not identified. Likely they are angels in heaven. Bear in mind that the prophet John is on earth and sees these visions so in the vision, getting input both from heaven and earth is not a problem.4. Jesus, when he returns to rule and reign will rule from Mt. Zion in Jerusalem. This is true Zionism. It is my personal belief that these 144000 will be there to administrate his kingdom and set it up, etc. It will last on earth 1000 years according to Revelation 20.This's how I see it. Others may have other ideas about it. That's fine. I'm airing it for what it's worth and you all can decide what you think.

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You don't have much faith in God, if you think such a little matter would be a barrier to His messengers.

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But when you see it happening now, why look for something else so unlikely?

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I suppose we have to hand to the prophecy-watchers, they have more imagination than a surrealist on speed. That's why every generation for the last 1900 years has found compelling evidence that the prophecies have been fulfilled........

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Few have had the interest in prophecy compared to this generation, and the very few who actually believed it was so near didn't do their homework, because the prerequisite to all the rest is a restored Jerusalem and land of Palestine to the Jews. Much else has been unfulfilled or was incapable of being fulfilled until our generation. I don't believe it's imminent for a while, but Armageddon is not far off, imo.

Btw, for the record, Sky Angel is broadcasting in many languages and continually adding more.

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Few have had the interest in prophecy compared to this generation,

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Well, that's pretty obvious as the population of the world is vastly greater in this generation than in previous ages. Your point is ...?

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and the very few who actually believed it was so near didn't do their homework, because the prerequisite to all the rest is a restored Jerusalem and land of Palestine to the Jews.

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Rest assured, they had explanations for their fulfillments every bit as wacky as yours. They had little problem explaining that the prophecies did not refer to Jews but to the God's true flock, or the true people of Israel. No more fanciful than that new order of angels which complement the cherubim and seraphim - the sputniks of the Lord.

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I don't believe it's imminent for a while, but Armageddon is not far off, imo

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You are course entitled to your view. Me? Armnotageddon too worried.

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It's twenty six years since I first took part in a public protest against slavery in Sudan - at that time the worst culprits were Christians in the south who sold Muslim and Animist captives into slavery in Uganda and the Central African Republic. More recently, Sudanese Animist refugees in Uganda have been attacked by the Lord's Resistance Army, who wish to run Uganda on the basis of the 10 Commandments. Up to date information on this soi-disant Christian organisation's rape, torture, chattel slavery and kidnapping can be found at Lord's Resistance Army (LRA)

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Somethings wrong with this picture. The SPLA in the South is fighting against the central Muslim government in the North. Right?
According to this quote from your link, the LRA seems to be siding with the Sudanese Muslim central government against Uganda. Is this correct?

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quote from link:

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the Lord's Resistance Army -- receives support from Sudan -- harass government forces and murder and kidnap civilians in the north and west. They do not, however, threaten the stability of the government.

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All that's going on? Including persecution, kidnapping, slavery and coerced conversion by Christian's? I checked out the site and found none of those.

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As I said, they are global and don't always feature Sudan. I take their monthly and there's been a lot about it from time to time which they cover. They supply much relief in clothing, food and other assistance to Sudan.

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So you don't object to the northern Islamic government in Sudan forcibly conscripting minors either?[/quote]I didn't say that, now, did I. The US and as I understand it, the SPLA do not practice the horrific stuff which the Muslim Central government is doing to the Christian South. Conscription, as you are likely aware simply means compulsory service. It can be humane and it can be brutal. Be fair now, sir.

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Somethings wrong with this picture. The SPLA in the South is fighting against the central Muslim government in the North. Right?
According to this quote from your link, the LRA seems to be siding with the Sudanese Muslim central government against Uganda. Is this correct?

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By my reading the quote says the LRA receive support from Sudan - not necessarily the goverment, but the territory. However, I'm not surprised you see something wrong with the picture, because you seem to presenting it as a religious struggle. If you view it as I do, as being about ethnic conflict, power, and human greed wrapped up in a sham of religion then it makes sense.

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Conscription, as you are likely aware simply means compulsory service. It can be humane and it can be brutal. Be fair now, sir.

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And how would you describe the forced conscription of over 10000 minors by the SPLA? You see, the problem is that faced with an allegation of abuse by Christians you segue into an example that downplays it. I don't get the impression you are being even handed.I do not want to play down my repulsion over the activities of the Sudanese government. But to present this as a simple us and them issue of Christians and Muslims is not right. Christians in the comfortable west have been far too willing to overlook the continuing problem of slavery in the southern, SPLA-controlled, areas of Sudan and the slavery practised by Christian groups in surrounding territories. The continuing culture of violence and slavery in the entire region and in all communities is the critical problem - not the practices of one religious group as opposed to another.

I don't want to take this topic too much further off-subject, but I need to correct a misperception in your post. I think you would be extremely hard pressed to make the case that the civil war in Sudan is a religious war directed by Moslems against Christians. In the first place, only roughly 40 percent of the population is Arab (northerners) although some 60 percent is Moslem. Roughly 60 percent overall are African. There are close to 600 ethnic groups and over 100 languages spoken in the South alone. (Metz, Helen Chapman ed., "Sudan, A Country Study", Federal Research Division, Library of Congress, 1991). While it's true that both Arab and Islamic groups prevail in the north, and African and Christian groups in the south, it's a gross over-simplification to reduce the conflict to the equation "Moslem vs Christian".There are quite a few scholars and historians who tend to support this view. For example,

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Since the firing of the first bullet in 1983, the reappearance of the war between northern and southern Sudan has generally been interpreted as a typical ethno-religious conflict emanating from differences between Muslims and Christians, or Arabs and Africans. While this categorization may have served well as a description of the earlier conflict in the 1950s, and still has some bearing on how the war is being conducted and perceived, our opinion is that the nature of the conflict has changed. Conflicts are processes, not static events. Over the last five decades developments in the Sudan have gradually but consistently changed the nature of the conflict between the North and the South from being a classic ethno-religious conflict to one primarily over resources, with the economic and resource crisis in the North emerging as the driving force in the Sudanese civil war. (Suliman, Mohammed, 2001, "18 Years of Civil War in the Sudan", Center for Security Studies, ETH Swiss Federal Institute for Technology)

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Moreover, this ludicrously simplistic view of the conflict utterly ignores the fact that armed opposition to the current regime in Sudan also arises from Moslem groups in the north, lending further support to the intertribal and economic basis for the conflict.

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The conflict in Sudan is considerably more complicated than the simple north-south, Muslim vs. Christian, Arab vs. African duality many of those now lobbying the administration present. Most northern Sudanese are Arabized Africans, not ethnic Arabs. Most southerners practice traditional religions, not Christianity, though missionaries operating there hope to change this. Many Muslims are deeply engaged in armed opposition to the regime, as well. The second largest armed group in the NDA after the SPLA is that of the Beja Congress, based among impoverished Muslims in northeastern Sudan, and there are others from the north in the opposition coalition. (Dan Connell, Rethinking Sudan, Foreign Policy in Focus, Aug 2001).

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About the only part of your post you got right was the figure of "millions" of casualties. The best estimates I've read indicate some 1.9-2 million dead in the past 20 years (since the start of the current civil war). Most of the dead, however, are from famine and disease (as would be expected given the environment). Only some 100,000-200,000 have died as direct results of the war. Still quite an atrocity. Massacres have been carried out by both sides. However, I will grant that the "religion" card has been used more heavily by Khartoum to further it's political, social, and resource control aims(notably arming of the marahileen paramilitary groups - impoverished Arab nomads displaced by economic development and granted freedom of operation under a declared jihad). I would argue that this is cynical manipulation by Khartoum to achieve political ends rather than arising from any religious belief. (See, for example, Burr, Millard 1998 "Quantifying Genocide in Southern Sudan and the Nuba Mountains", US Committee for Refugees special report).Attempting to paint a multi-ethnic, multi-religious regional conflict as some kind of Christian martydom exercise merely demonstrates that the person making the claim has no clue about the actual facts and history of the conflict. Actually, if you dig into the conflict, you'll find that the UN made a deliberate decision to not try and send troops to the area (although they had some observers on the Ethiopian border) because (at least ostensibly), the UN didn't have the accession of both parties (and thus it would have been logisitically and militarily impossible). The UN has tried on numerous occasions to get food and medicine to the south, with mixed success. IIRC, the Bush administration pledged $30 million in non-military humanitarian aid for souther Sudan in 2001(?), but has AFIK not delivered as yet, most likely due to other more pressing problems that arose in the interim.Read some actual history. You might find it more interesting than the pablum spouted by the likes of Fox News.[This message has been edited by Quetzal, 05-19-2003]

Thanks to those who have taken the time to present information concerning the Sudanese conflict. I'm beginning to see that it is somewhat more complicated than I've understood it. That is not to say I'm convinced that the attrocities are equally brutal on both sides, for I'm still quite sure that that's just not the case. I will continue to follow this and learn as much as I can as to what's going on there.