Good Bible Prophecies List

About Bible Prophecy

My apologies, Administrator. I meant to put this in the Bible acuracy forum. Can it be moved? Thanks.

Thread moved here from the Welcome, Visitors! forum.

I notice that they include the usual weaselling to avoid admitting that Ezekiel's propecy against Tyre failed. Nor does it admit that the mainstream view of Bible scholars is that the prophecies of Daniel are dated to the 2nd Century BC - after most of the events "predicted".Neither encourages me to trust the site, since it clearly promotes prophecies which are not good at all..Why don't you choose a prophecy and show that it is really convincing taking into account:
time of writing
(a prophecy that can't be traced until after the events is no good)purpose of writing (it had better be clear that it is a prediction rather than the "prediction" being retrofitted onto text that says nothing of the sort).match to actual events - in accuracy AND detail. Time limits are especially important.difficulty (a prediction that anyone at the time of writing could make is not convincing)the possibility of self-fulfillment

Not a single 'prophecy' at this site is in actual fact a prophecy.Maybe you want to post a few that you think are true prophecies?------------------
Remembering events that never happened is a dangerous thing!

Maybe you could jump into any of the already open threads discussing prophecy?Tyre is discussed here: EvC Forum: What Science is NOTAt the beginning of the thread is a discussion of what would make a good prophecy. I suggest you read it.There is Drum's list, which desperately needs a defender: EvC Forum: Drum's list of prophecies :)------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

In Matthew 24:14 Jesus prophesied that his new little religion/gospel would eventually be preached worldwide.1. It was an itty bitty new little religion considered by the mainstream as a cult when the prophecy was uttered.
2. The one who made the prophecy was soon after executed. Bigtime negative for the shakey new religion, humanly speaking.
3. His desciples who were to begin the fulfillment were neither wealthy, powerful, highly educated nor influential.
4. The mainstream religion of the time did everything possible to stop/hinder the spread of the new cult.
5. The original desciples were nearly all executed also, according to tradition.
6. Jerusalem, headquarters of the religion was soon destroyed.
7. The Ceasars of Rome determined to stamp out the religion after the destruction, inflicting terrible torture and death to the Christians.
8. When the prophecy was uttered, most of the world was not even discovered yet.So folks now, here we are with the prophecy pretty much fulfilled and that gospel book an all time best seller for decades, when humanly speaking the odds of it's ever being fulfilled were nigh unto impossible.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 05-15-2003]

1) Rarely do the founders of religions claim otherwise.2) Martyrdom is a great way to crystalize the faith.3) Some were rather well educated-- Paul for example. Some were not. Why does this matter especially?4) There wasn't really a main stream religion at the time and place. The Romans were rather irreverant and the Jews, despite-- I imagine-- your misunderstandings, were pretty powerless.5) Maybe you wouldn't mind naming which set of twelve we are talking about? The gospels don't much agree.6) Yes, because the Jews were a pain in Rome's butt, and had been for quite a few years. Anyone living at the time and in the place would have known something bad was bound to happen.7) Nero blamed the christians for the fire in Rome and probably did the sect a huge favor. He brought it into the limelight. The early christians had a going against them. Persecution has a way of backfiring though. And it did.8) Why is this relevant?------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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1) Rarely do the founders of religions claim otherwise.

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But how many have their claims/prophecies fulfilled at all, let alone to the extent that it becomes the world's all time greatest?

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2) Martyrdom is a great way to crystalize the faith.

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But how many martyred to the extent of the Christians, who btw are still being martyred in Islamland by the hundreds of thousands just this last decade.

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3) Some were rather well educated-- Paul for example. Some were not. Why does this matter especially?

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Paul was about it for education or previous influence and they hated him fiercely.

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4) There wasn't really a main stream religion at the time and place. The Romans were rather irreverant and the Jews, despite-- I imagine-- your misunderstandings, were pretty powerless.

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Oh, really? So how come the Jews had sooo much power, even to the point that they could call the shots as to who of their enemies they were to have executed by themselves and the Roman rulers?

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5) Maybe you wouldn't mind naming which set of twelve we are talking about? The gospels don't much agree.

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Sorry, too busy to nitpick about lists. It's the prophecy and it's fulfillment that's important here. Do a thread on your tangent if that's important to you.

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6) Yes, because the Jews were a pain in Rome's butt, and had been for quite a few years. Anyone living at the time and in the place would have known something bad was bound to happen.

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What's your point? It was still a deterrent to the fulfillment of the prophecy.

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8) Why is this relevant?

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Because at the time it was given the known world was a much smaller place. The larger the actual world, the harder for the prophecy to fulfill, especially when vast oceans separated the one who uttered it from the other half of the world.John, sounds like you really don't want to acknowledge a bonafide prophecy when you see it.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 05-16-2003]

Some three million Jews were martyred for their faith just in this century. Your figure appears to pale by comparison. Christians don't have the monopoly on martyrdom, not by a long shot.I'm just saying, is all.

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But how many have their claims/prophecies fulfilled at all

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By the same standards you set, all of them.

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let alone to the extent that it becomes the world's all time greatest?

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Christianity has never dominated the world. Right now it has about a third, and the numbers have remained the same for decades. Islam is growing at about .6% or so and ought to overtake Christianity is twenty years or so. Basically 2/3s of the world isn't buying it.

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But how many martyred to the extent of the Christians

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Christians haven't suffered all that much at the hands of the heathen. From its inception to Constantine's adopting it is a span of about three hundred years. Prior to that, persecution was sporadic at worst and after that, the persecution has predominantly been christians beating the snot out of each other. In other words, the religion is nothing special. There is plenty of persecution to go around.

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Paul was about it for education or previous influence and they hated him fiercely.

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What? Paul was about what for education, what previous influences and who hated him?

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Oh, really? So how come the Jews had sooo much power, even to the point that they could call the shots as to who of their enemies they were to have executed by themselves and the Roman rulers?

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They didn't have sooooo much power and they couldn't call the shots and pull the Roman government's strings. This crap was invented by the people who wrote the bible.

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Sorry, too busy to nitpick about lists.

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This is absolutely classic! You assert that the twelve disciples were all martyred, yet asking who exactly these people were is nit-picking?

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What's your point?

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Guessing that the Jews would piss off the Romans one too many times wouldn't have been that hard. Suppose, a few years back I had predicted that Saddam Hussein would push the US to military action. Would I be a prophet? Not really. Just a guy who was looking at what was going on around him.

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Because at the time it was given the known world was a much smaller place.

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Sure. The same is true for any institution that has spread over the world. Nothing magical about it. Populations grow and sprawl and technology makes travel easier.

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John, sounds like you really don't want to acknowledge a bonafide prophecy when you see it.

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Sounds like some fortune tellers need your phone number.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

John has problbly said much the same but I want to make my own points.1) This is the sort of self-aggrandisment that we should expect from cult leaders
Therefore we already have reason to discount it as a valid prophecy - it is the sort of thing that we could expect to be said whether it turns out to be true or false. It also serves to motivate the disciples to go out and spread the word by assuring them of great success - again a reaon which has nothign to do with prediction.2) This point seems irrelevant. It assumes that Jesus was expecting to be executed whioch is far from certain.3) Is likewise irrelevant - as I have pointed out likelihood of fulfilment is not an issue.4) Is an outright falsehood. The major religions didn't much care.5) These traditions are late and untrustworthy - and the whole point is irrelevant6) Is again irrelevant The church was still very decentralised a couple of centuries later. I understand that the Orthodox church still is.7) Is an exaggeration. There were periods of persecution but most Emperors did little.6) Is just silly. The concept existed - so there is no way to argue that Jesus meant any part of the New World which does not beg the question. Clearly it is entirely possible that Jesus used the expression just as others of that tiem and place would.

I would be interested in hearing where this is/has been occurring. That kind of mass slaughter should be fairly obvious, don't you think? The worst massacres that happened in the 1990's was either inter-tribal (with both being nominally Christian) as in Rwanda and Burundi, or carried out by Christians, such as the "ethnic cleansing" by Christian Serbs on the primarily Moslem populations of Kosovo and Albania. Please reference where these "hundreds of thousands" of Christians were martyred.[This message has been edited by Quetzal, 05-16-2003]

This is a reply to John as well.I would be prone to disagreeing with one or two of your points, but really, from your side, I think you've answered too specifically and lost your most important point in answering all the others.I don't believe Buzsaw was making a list of prophecies. He was addressing one prophecy, which is that Jesus said his Gospel would be preached in all the world. All the other points were simply to say that it was unlikely this prophecy would be fulfilled by chance.Therefore, Paul, your statement:

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as I have pointed out likelihood of fulfilment is not an issue.

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is wrong. Likelihood of fulfillment is the only issue Buzsaw was really addressing.I think your main point (and John's) was very good. Such a prophecy is made by every religious leader (or almost every one), so even if it wasn't likely at that point to be fulfilled by Jesus specifically, it was likely to be fulfilled in general, because some religion is always popular. In fact, it was so likely that Mohammed (Islam), Joseph Smith (Mormonism) or Buddha (or even Confucious) can claim such a fulfillment as well..There's one more pretty interesting point, if you want to call it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Paul said that the Gospel had been preached in all the world in the letter to the Colossians (Col 1:5,6), so Paul was carrying it to "all the world" on his own before the Gospels were ever written (except maybe Mark or Q, if Q existed as a written document).[edited for spelling][This message has been edited by truthlover, 05-16-2003]

I think you are misunderstanding my post. I did take it that buzsaw was addressign only one prophecy however he also included a list of points supposed to support that prophecy and that is the list I was criticising.My point on probability of fulfilment is that it was not an issue for Jesus - he would be likely to make such a claim even if he realised that the probability was low (although he would likely not realise that even if it were low).Thanks for the Colossians reference. I could add that Matthew 24:34 says that all these things will happen within a generation of Jesus speaking, and so the prophecy is actually a failure.