Aliens and the Bible

Kuresu: Well all knowledge is based either in experience, or authority...Since I have made contact with Him personally (experience) yes! And my experience confirms what the others supposedly said of Him. In fact, the Bible is the book that explains what I have been experiencing.After meeting Him myself, I can now recognize the descriptions as authoritative.I assure you... you will meet Him too. He really is the Christ!

anecdotes aren't evidence.How can we now that you did in fact meet 'the Christ' and not some figment of your imagination?By the way, I've born his name for nearly 20 years and have yet to meet him. Don't you think he could at least say hello to his bearer?Nice dodge. Answer my first post.

Kuresu: You can't.You have to choose to either believe me or not. I have no control over you. I can only tell you that I believe with all my mind, all my soul, and all my heart that he really is the truth.And the reason is because I have a experienced Him, and have a continuing dialog.Believe whatever you want.But I'll say it again... You will meet Him. It's not a matter of if but when. You may not know, but I do know.I don't care whether you believe me or not. I don't need your approval. But I do pray that you will...The only reason I am here is to testify to what I believe in hope that those who want to know, might be encouraged to believe in spite of rigorous attempts to ridicule anyone who does not bow to the worshippers of the creation, rather than the creator.I bow to God. And I bow to Him because He revealed Himself to me as He promised He would. And He did so in spite of the fact I do not deserve to know.Imagine my shock... Here I am praying to this God I don't know, only because I knew in my innermost being that I really was a sinner who deserved to never know Him (as He said). I had to admit that that part was right. But maybe He really would forgive me and show himself. I had always thought a personal relationship with Christ was just made up too.We're more alike than you know...I didn't really understand it... But I prayed like a fool, and asked Him to forgive me and show me how to live. No strings... I let it all out... tears and all. I told Him that if He would help me to understand what the point of this charade 'called life' is, that I would give Him my whole life in exchange for actually knowing the truth. And I thanked Him for paying the price for my sins...Imagine my shock when He showed up over the next few weeks! I realized then, that I didn't really believe before.... it was a little leap of faith (a mustard seed). All I did was open my heart and mind to the possibility (remote as it was). But now I don't have to believe blindly, for I have seen Him. My eyes were opened.If that makes me a fool in your eyes, then I am a fool in your eyes. The only difference is that I know what I know just as He told me I would know, and you don't know what I know. And you don't know, because you (at least for now) refuse to believe and ask Him.Maybe I am just mad... or maybe I am telling the truth.The only way you can know is through Him. To do what I have done with an honest and broken heart. Not as a test, but because you really mean it. Because you really want to know and will sacrifice anything to know it.You don't have to believe me. It's not about me. It's really about whether He was who He claimed to be. He's the one who claimed to be the truth incarnate; not me...Do you really want to know?
Or are you only trying to make me look like a fool?If you accuse me of preaching instead of answering your question, then I know it is the latter because the preaching of the Gospel is the answer to your question.I know it is not a figment of my imagination because He talks to me in an incredible way that words cannot describe. I can see Him, and distinguish Him from me. Just like in talking to you, I know you're not me; in talking to Him, I know He is not me.Believe it or not...

Kuresu: What do you want me to say... that it is not scientific but metaphysical?But it is as scientific as you can get individually. Faith (theo) + test + confirmation = evidence! But collectively it is pure metaphysics. I can't run the test for you. And you don't have to believe my results. But I do, because they're my results. And I know the difference between an image, and the real thing.Before, God was the image I created for me. Now God is God, and I am me.

No need to. So? This doesn't prove that what you see isn't a figment of your imagination. Smeagol thinks Gollum is a different person. He talks to Gollum, and Gollum talks to Smeagol. Frodo can see Smeagol, and Sam can see Gollum. However, Smeagol doesn't see that Gollum isn't real. This doesn't make Gollum real. That is, it doesn't make Gollum separate from Smeagol--Gollum is Smeagol, Smeagol is Gollum.And no, the gospel is not the answer to my questions. Here they are again:
How is your position different from his?
How is the human body the "most sophisticated vessel" in the universe? WHy can't there be more sophisticated vessels?
What is sosphisticated?
How does "virgin birth" qualify one for being an alien?
Why do the gospels talk of a human?
What evidence is there for the ascendence of this alien?
Do you have any outside (of the bible) corroboration of this alien and the things this alien did?
Or is this all an assertion by the master theologaster rob?The gospel answers none of those questions (yes, even the one asking why the talk about a human instead of an alien).One final thing--you sold your soul. You exchanged everlasting obediance for an answer to a question man is capable of answering on his own. Congrats.

That's a screwy way to define a scientific endevour. Forget the faith part. evidence is not the result of testing and confirmation.Evidence is what you start with. You may not know what it is evidence for to begin with, but evidences are facts. Then you test an explanation of the facts. And if it's confirmed, you have a possible explanation for the facts.That's actually where your 'faith' would come in. For you, a good scheme would be like:
miracle (or fact) ->explanation? ->test explanation ->confirmed?->possible 'faith' explanation of miracle (or fact).

Sorry to butt in... As this thread shows, the "true meaning" could be anything!As long as there is some hint of meaning in the text anyone can interpret it to mean whatever they want.So, I see your point to jar, but I would question the larger point of applying any kind of validity to whatever zany interpretation one can come up with (using canonical evidence). Yes, NotQuiteEvolvedRudeRacistGuy can believe that the Bible describes ET and spaceships and IMHO that has just as much evidentiary basis as the rest of the claptrap in the bible.Like you (I believe) said, it is obviously not about unicorns, but who can really say what it is about? Anyone can make any shit up and (sorry, jar) as long as it has some kind of textual support it is equally valid as any other textually supported view.See my signature for more.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

i have to rate "aliens in the bible" a half-point less than "moses's cd-rom collection" on the wackiness scale. for some reason, aliens are just slightly more plausible than time travellers from 1994 with a 386. well, hang on there. some interpretations are, indeed, wrong. we CAN'T simply interpret it to mean anything we want. people TRY. well, hang on there too. there's a lot of myth and racism and general goofiness in the bible, yes. but there's other stuff, too. the book of kings is pretty reliable as a history text, even if it omits some choice things. and the exile does seem to have really happened.

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Well, I haven't seen/read/heard the moses cd-rom collection, so I can't comment specifically, but even the term "slightly more plausible" gives away the game. If the text can conceivably support time travellers from 1994 with a 386, then someone can run with it and as long as there is no evidence to the contrary that is absolutely not subject to interpretation, then your opinion about plausibility is simply an opinion. I went on to say in my post that some interpretations are obviously invalid (as in unicorns in Psalm 18, like CS mentioned). What I meant was that many, many interpretations are equally valid or close to it and there isn't much anyone can do to prove most of them right or wrong. Kinda like RAZD's example of Zeus and lightning in another thread. If Vash or Elone or anyone else wants to interpret certain passages as supporting ET encounters, there isn't much anyone can do about it but give contradictory text. Even if, as jar has done, we show them that the text says God did these things, it is still just as plausible that the authors were using God as a metaphor for the unexplainable...including alien visitation.It's just like saying that various deities were used to explain earthquakes and lightning and disease. Except we now have naturalistic explanations for these things (altho they can still be attributed to deities and are). The imagery in Psalm 18, however, could be God or aliens and we can't really say, can we?One delusion is as good as the next.There is no objective evidence either way (in the previously mentioned and other examples) and that is what I meant by saying that most interpretations are just as good as any other. OK, I apologize for calling the whole bible "claptrap." That was quite unreasonable.The historicity of certain biblical events may be unquestionable, but the deity behind the events described may be Yahweh or it may be alien entities or manifestations of psychotropic trances or a conspiracy among ancient priests to keep the people in line or any number of things. That is where the interpretation comes in and that is what cannot be proven wrong or right.

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"You are metaphysicians. You can prove anything by metaphysics; and having done so, every metaphysician can prove every other metaphysician wrong--to his own satisfaction. You are anarchists in the realm of thought. And you are mad cosmos-makers. Each of you dwells in a cosmos of his own making, created out of his own fancies and desires. You do not know the real world in which you live, and your thinking has no place in the real world except in so far as it is phenomena of mental aberration." -The Iron Heel by Jack London"Hazards exist that are not marked" - some bar in Chelsea

quote:

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I'll take your word for it, and I will no longer use it if it makes you happy.

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You shouldn't take my word for it.You should investigate the video's origins yourself with a skeptical mindset insead of just believing it without checking it out, which is what you initially did.I suggest to you that the vast, vast, VAST majority of photos of flying saucers et al are outright fakes.If their origins cannot be verified, then you siimply cannot use them as positive evidence. They are simply some photo that could be a fake.To prevent being made a fool of again, I suggest less credulity and more skepticism.

Catholic Scientist said,"How can you tell the difference? If the technology was advanced enough, you wouldn't be able too. Considering that, then all of Jesus' miracles could have been faked if he was an alien with significant technology." A miracle is an event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin. Before the advent of cloning, replicating another life would have been considered a miracle. Now through advanced technology it is no longer a miracle. The big message of the Bible is one of an experiment gone wrong through anothers' personal agenda and the attempts to make it right. It doesnt invalidate Jesus; his message is that there is a better way.

Jar said, "But the Psalm says that it is talking about God and all the imagery is typical of the period and style. So why make shit up?" The Psalm doesnt name 'God'; it names 'Lord'. Lord as defined in the 1913 Websters' Unabridged Dictionary is: 1. One who has power and authority; a master; a ruler; a governor; a prince; a proprietor, as of a manor. The reference is to one who has power over another. I am not making stuff up! Just like cloning, talking to another with a cell phone, flying and using antibiotics to cure disease would have been considered supernatural or a miracle a thousand years ago; they are common place now. Nothing made up about that. The difference is the new words, "distinctions", that were created out of the industrial and technological revolutions. Most Bibles were translated and interpreted over 200 years ago when language and life was simpler and many of the words used today were not needed to explain life. When you look at the Hebrew Scriptures using todays wod bank, a whole different message emerges.

Seems to me that this pretty much invalidates much of the bible. I don't really have a problem with adding a twist to a good story, but it does present some problems for believers don't you think? He reminds me of Spock, relation perhaps?**abe** What message would you predict is correct? Did they write the bible with the intent to be correctly interpreted with modern english? Why didn't they change the text back then if everyone was reading the bible and saying "God is an alien who rides flying chariots from mars"I am with Jar, it just seems to be more logical. It says what it means.
**abe**Edited by Vacate, : Hebrew scripture predicts God is greenEdited by Vacate, : Formatting

Kuresu: Yes you're quite right. But it was sold before also. I never owned it. And neither will you. but by giving it away, it was given to me.It's something you'll never understand, because you refuse to give up control. Therefore it will be taken from you, because in reality, you are out of control.Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?It doesn't matter whether you believe it.Kuresu: That's an excellent illustration. I often feel like Smeagol. And I often feel like Gullom. And both are me. That is why death will be so sweet. Freedom from Gullom once and for all. The flesh will perish with all of it's sinful desires. The only thing left will be the eternal life giving Spirit within (the real me).You on the other hand are Gullom. You hate, and spit and claw. You have no life on the other side that wrestles with your uncontrolled lusts and reasons with you. You hate any thought of a crisis of conscious. So you keep the little Smeagol voice inside chained and broken.At least that's the image you convey... I don't believe it. I actually think you are not Gullom. Gullom isn't the real you and never was the real you. Gullom is only a masqureade built to cope with the pain inside the real you. And the real you is not powerful enough to overcome the Gullom. And the real you wants to believe... but the Gullom talks you out of it and mocks you for even entertaining the idea. So when you see others like me who have believed, you hate us.You need the love and forgivness of Christ who died for you. He will come to you, and put Gullom in chains. He will show you how to live.Gullom has lied to you.Anyway, I am not going to continue this dicsussion. Say whatever you want. You're going to believe what you choose to believe. I'm going to believe what I know is the truth because He helps me. And only because I admitted that I was strong enough which was the first true thing I had to admit.Some of you will never admit that. You refuse to give up control and are therefore out of control. But you can choose if you want to. but that's not what you want. So chase your illusion. Believe the lie. I suppose to you it is better than making yourself vulnerable to receiving love and being rejected again.Isn't that what this is all about; fear of rejection?Do not be afraid for your God loves you more than you could possibly imagine.

Highestevolved whiteguy said' "What part of the bible are you referencing?" Answer: 1Samuel 8 In my reply to jar I explained how todays technology, if viewed from a time 1,000 years ago or more would have been considered miracles or of supernatural origin. Cloning is appropriate in that you want evidence of possible alien intervention in the Bible; and science has shown that cloning is not supernatural, but a scientific fact. It is believed that the Bible was written about 6,000 yrs ago for the OT and about 2,000 yrs ago for the NT. Look how much technology has advanced in just that relatively short time. The supernatural is being explained and miracles are done every day through medicine and technology. The reason, I believe, the Bible is not believed or understood by many today, is that the language used when it was translated and interpreted was not as advanced as it is today and those things assigned supernatural origin can be explained by todays lanaguage