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Author Topic:   Why, if god limited man's life to 120 years, did people live longer?
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2876 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 7 of 230 (25658)
12-05-2002 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by thestickman
12-05-2002 10:00 AM


quote:
Originally posted by thestickman:
Well my name's Ryan and i'm new and currently consider myself to be agnostic. I am currently reading the bible and was struck, right near the beginning, with what seemed to be a glaring contradiction. In Genesis 6:3 'The the Lord said "I will not allow people to live for ever; they are mortal. From now on they will live no longer that 120 years"'. Now, after this there are examples of people living longer than 120 years (genesis 23:1 'Sarah lived to be 127 years old' being one of them). Now i know there are many believed contradictions in the bible and they are continually refuted (although not always with proper reasoning and fact) and I tried to find reasoning for this seemingly massive contradiction, but couldn't find any. So, any help?
You didn't mention which translation you were quoting; and that, my friend, can make all the difference in the world. Check out these two alternatives:
"Then the LORD said, My Spirit shall not forever remain in man since he has gone astray; he is flesh, I will allow him another one hundred and twenty years." Modern Language Bible (formerly known as The Berkeley Version)
"Then Jehovah said, 'My Spirit must not forever be disgraced in man, wholly evil as he is. I will give him 120 years to mend his ways.'" Living Bible
The context of this statement is the story of Noah's Flood. Thus, many take it to be a long term warning of genocide to come.
This could be translated - "120 days," but that is another story.
PS. This should warm your agnostic heart:
- "Seventy years are given us! And some may even live to eighty. But even the best of these years are often emptiness and pain; soon they disappear, and we are gone." Psalm 90:10 Living Bible
db
[This message has been edited by doctrbill, 12-05-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by thestickman, posted 12-05-2002 10:00 AM thestickman has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by nick4693, posted 06-23-2009 8:50 PM doctrbill has replied
 Message 177 by mike the wiz, posted 06-24-2009 1:42 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2876 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 49 of 230 (28154)
12-30-2002 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by shilohproject
12-26-2002 12:23 PM


quote:
Originally posted by shilohproject:
I see no spiritual aspects to the passage. It says, "You will die," not, "You will die spiritually." The question for the literalist is simple: Does the Bible mean what it says and say what it means?
I believe the story intends to show that the Gods are less than honest.
They told the man he would die "in the day" he ate the fruit. The serpent said, you won't and he didn't.
The serpent predicted that humans would become "like gods" which they did, by the gods' own admission - "the man has become like one of us".
Thus, the serpent was truthful and the gods were not.
The question, as I see it, is not so much, "Does the Bible mean what it says?" but rather - "Why do gods lie?"
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by shilohproject, posted 12-26-2002 12:23 PM shilohproject has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by shilohproject, posted 01-03-2003 2:40 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2876 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 52 of 230 (28382)
01-03-2003 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by shilohproject
01-03-2003 2:40 PM


quote:
Originally posted by doctrbill: "Why do gods lie?"
quote:
Original reply by shilohproject:
If this is to be your question, then it must follow that you accept the story as literalistic, historical fact. ...
Not at all.
quote:
shilohproject: What is a "god" to you?
Generically speaking, a god is a force, someone or something which the average person is powerless to assist or oppose. A god is visible or invisible, excellent, insurmountable, and unsurpassed. A god may be major or minor, good or evil, faithful or fickle, liberating or enslaving, joy bringing or a pain in the butt. A god is often what one establishes as having ultimate value for ones self. A god may be real or imaginary, literal or metaphorical, here or there. Love is a god; money is a god; the Bible is a god; and Martha Stewart is a goddess.
Gods have been created in many forms. The Judeo/Christian/Muslim God was created in the image of man. All the princes of Israel were called gods by Jehovah (the head God), and Moses was promoted to god-hood, by Jehovah, when he sent him to Egypt. Jesus was declared a god by his followers, and Mohammed has been made a god by his followers.
Gods come and gods go, but the universe keeps turning 'round, and the universe don't care.
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by shilohproject, posted 01-03-2003 2:40 PM shilohproject has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by shilohproject, posted 01-03-2003 9:28 PM doctrbill has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2876 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 117 of 230 (426567)
10-07-2007 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Raphael
10-06-2007 6:41 PM


Raphael writes:
... because he's been living for infinity its a little hard to see time in the same way as measly humans.
Poor God!
That could be a serious problem for a time traveller.
Would that explain why he hasn't been seen around here lately?
Is there something we can do to help him with that?
PS
Does he also have that problem with humans who are not "measly."

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Raphael, posted 10-06-2007 6:41 PM Raphael has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2876 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 173 of 230 (513013)
06-23-2009 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by nick4693
06-23-2009 8:50 PM


Re: Various Bible translations
Welcome to the Forum, Nick.
nick4693 writes:
I take acception to DB's reply concerning translations of "God's" limit placed upon man's lifespan.
...
In other words, DB's claim suggests that the statement 120 years is meaningless because, being determined by each person's age, "another 120 years" means various age limits to different people.
It can be confusing, early in the game, when one reads so many posts from so many people and then tries to recall who said what; BUT - I don't know how you got all that from what I wrote.
doctrbill writes:
The context of this statement is the story of Noah's Flood. Thus, many take it to be a long term warning of genocide to come.
This could be translated - "120 days," but that is another story.
nick4693 writes:
I can understand minor mistakes in translation, but some Bibles are so wide of the mark, it is patently clear they are simply proselytizing a preconceived agenda devoid of logic and reason.
I would agree, in essence, although I think there is always a reason, even if the reason is that they are unreasonable. It is more often likely, I think, that they work to support a sectarian tradition, foster a different agenda, or please their target audience/market.
The fact remains that many have survived the 120 barrier, both biblical characters and actual people.
Not that I believe anything in the Bible, other than a few correct geographical locations and a few reigns.
Given the errors, contradictions, falsities and downright wrong information contained in the Bible (supposedly inspired by a god), it is nothing less than hogwash, really, promulgated for the sole purpose of CONTROL!
I would, in general, agree with everything you have said. On the other hand, I find the Bible itself to be an OK book. That's more than I can say for many of its' translators and interpreters.
And again: Welcome to the Forum.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by nick4693, posted 06-23-2009 8:50 PM nick4693 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by nick4693, posted 06-24-2009 1:20 AM doctrbill has replied
 Message 175 by nick4693, posted 06-24-2009 1:31 AM doctrbill has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2876 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 176 of 230 (513037)
06-24-2009 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by nick4693
06-24-2009 1:20 AM


Re: Various Bible translations
nick4693 writes:
The 120-year subject, of course, is really neither here nor there, given the other more important blatant errors contained within its pages, that can be used to discredit this spurious compendium.
There are, as you say, blatant errors contained in the Bible but that is to be expected of a collection going back to antiquity. What is more disturbing, I think, are the many goofy interpretations which fail to consider an alternative understanding, like the case of Genesis 6:3.
The Geneva Bible, published in 1568, contains a footnote which purports to explain the "120 years" as
quote:
"Which time span God gave man to repent before he would destroy the earth,"
That, I think, is a better interpretation, but I doubt it nonetheless because it would involve several generations of people.
A better translation, I think, would be "120 days," i.e. four (4) months. About the same amount of time which George "God speaks through me" Bush gave the Iraqis (in the same valley, BTW) to fish-or-cut-bait.
The key here involves translation of the Hebrew word snh {H8132}: to change, (including: to change one's clothing) or, repeat; as in repeat an action.
This word is also translated "sleep," thus, might well be understood to mean: "cycle" (as in sleep cycle) and thus might be understood as a change of day; - i.e "120 cycles" rather than "120 years." Even if it means a change of month, which I believe it does in Genesis 5, it would still amount to only "10 years" not "120 years." But I think 10 years is too much. A lot can happen in 10 years!
I prefer "120 days" because I think four months is a reasonable amount of time to give your enemy to change his ways before you take action to destroy him (as Bush did to Saddam).
I think that if the story were to read: "I'm giving you 120 days to change your ways," then it would be a perfectly normal and ultimately understandable story element which is not only quasi-scientific (by linguistic analysis) but also conforms to common sense, and answers to real life experience.
The Bible is just a book. The problem is people who "believe in" the Bible as if it were God incarnate, their only connection to the divine. And yes, it is true that modern translations of the Bible often bear little resemblance to the ancient script.
Bible Champion.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by nick4693, posted 06-24-2009 1:20 AM nick4693 has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2876 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 178 of 230 (513070)
06-24-2009 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by mike the wiz
06-24-2009 1:42 PM


mike the wiz writes:
A good silly example is Cain's wife.
What about Cain's wife?
I'd be interested to know your take on that.
Sincerely,

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by mike the wiz, posted 06-24-2009 1:42 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by ochaye, posted 06-25-2009 10:57 AM doctrbill has not replied
 Message 180 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-25-2009 6:43 PM doctrbill has not replied

  
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