The Prophecy of the 70 weeks of Daniel

"Elaborate hoaxes" "forgeries" and "Conspiracies" are your constructions, not mine. Take your strawmen elsewhere.The dates cannot be substantiated. The authorships cannot be substantiated. That doesn't mean there were hoaxes going on. I would put it more in the category of wishful thinking - just as you are doing. The fact that texts are "revered" and part of the canon means little. A lot of people revere and canonize the Book of Morman. Does that mean it has to be true in a literal sense? No.

quote:

---

"Elaborate hoaxes" "forgeries" and "Conspiracies" are your constructions, not mine. Take your strawmen elsewhere.

---

Terms for what would have had to have happened if your unsupportable dream doubts about a solidly evidenced book were valid at all.As it stands, the dates cannot be unsubstantiated!!!Try it, and see, rather than allude stuff, you don't seem to have much of a grip on.

quote:

---

Terms for what would have had to have happened if your unsupportable dream doubts about a solidly evidenced book were valid at all.

---

No. You do not get to characterize the arguments of others - that is the logical fallacy known as the "strawman argument." There are reasons other than conspiracies and hoaxes why the text of any ancient book should not be taken literally - epic myth for example.

quote:

---

As it stands, the dates cannot be unsubstantiated!!!

---

Classic logical fallacy of someone without a solid argument - demanding that someone "prove a negative". Sorry - the burden of proof is on the person making the claim that an event occured at a certain time in a certain place - not on the skeptic. Edited by deerbreh, : No reason given.

You seem to be looking for the foretelling of a future event that is yet to take place that is stated in the Bible.I would like to point out a couple. If you never die this one is incorrect.
If one day you stand before Jesus in judgment it is true, and you will remember this post at that time. Peter said the universe was going to melt.
This was predicted over 2k years ago and today we have many scientist that believe that is going to happen. Many don't they think it is going to just run out of energy and get cold.If the universe doesn't melt then Peter was wrong.There is one problem with this prophesy, you and I probably won't be on earth to see if it comes true or not.And there will be plenty trying to explain it away as it happens.God Bless,

---

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

quote:

---

You seem to be looking for the foretelling of a future event that is yet to take place that is stated in the Bible.

​

I would like to point out a couple.

---

I think it is more like what skeptics need is an example of something that was predicted actually having occured and someone using the scripture to predict it before it happened - not something yet to occur, as we can't verify the future - and not something that happened yesterday and then someone saying, "Oh yeah, that was predicted in the Bible" followed by a long explanation of how this means that and this is symbolic of that, blah blah blah.

Jesus made the following prediction 39 years before the fact.
Matthew recorded it for our benefit. History records that this event took place in 70 AD. Jeremiah prophesies that Israel will be scattered and many would die.
Millions of Israelites have died in Germany and other countries. Jeremiah prophesied God would bring the children of Jacob back home.For 2000 years they had no home until 1947.Today they exist in their own country.Now if you can't be satisfied with predictions like these you will just have to wait around and see if mine comes true.I could go out on a limb and predict that in the future we will have a worldwide government. The man that is in charge will make a treaty with Israel and those who want to destroy Israel. The Temple will be rebuilt and Temple Worship restored. After a while He will stand in the Temple and declare himself to be God and that the world must worship him. From Matthew chapter 24.God Bless,

---

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

And do we know that the Gospel writer WROTE it down before it (temple destruction in 70 AD) happened? No. I rather think you proved my point.

quote:

---

Peter said the universe was going to melt.
This was predicted over 2k years ago and today we have many scientist that believe that is going to happen. Many don't they think it is going to just run out of energy and get cold.

​

If the universe doesn't melt then Peter was wrong.

---

He never said it was going to be a natural melt!

quote:

---

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

​

If you never die this one is incorrect.
If one day you stand before Jesus in judgment it is true, and you will remember this post at that time.

---

That is telling us how it works, not a prophesy. It is appointed for such and such to happen..

quote:

---

No. You do not get to characterize the arguments of others - that is the logical fallacy known as the "strawman argument.

---

No. You do not get to tell me when not to characterize the arguments of others - that is the logical fallacy known as the "strawman argument.I call em like I see em.

quote:

---

There are reasons other than conspiracies and hoaxes why the text of any ancient book should not be taken literally - epic myth for example.

---

If you come up with any reasons let us know, now. Meanwhile, I have no reason not to take the bible as powerful evidence, of some real force that is present, in fulfilled prophesies.

quote:

---

Classic logical fallacy of someone without a solid argument - demanding that someone "prove a negative". Sorry - the burden of proof is on the person making the claim that an event occured at a certain time in a certain place - not on the skeptic.

---

So, who gets to say who has the positive, and who has the negative!? You? Don't think so. That is a plumb wrong notion fallacy.

Good one.

Basically, yes we do. Jesus died a certain year. Check your calendar to get the general time, it is set to Him after all, the year of our Lord!!!! Jesus was the one that prophesied it!! Some say He alluded to a Daniel prophesy the prophesied the same!! Are you going to now try to make Daniel after 70 AD as well!!??

What is the date of the earliest extant text of 'Matthew's' Gospel? Don't you find it strange that we don't know Jesus year of birth?

It's funny how Matthew didn't record the prediction of Jesus until after the fact. Have you ever thought that Matthew might have stretched the truth there?As for the nation of Israel, that is known as a 'self fulfilling prophecy'. It was predicted, so people worked to it. On the other hand, it does not meet the criteria of the predicted Israel, since it isn't under a king.

quote:

---

So, who gets to say who has the positive, and who has the negative!? You? Don't think so. That is a plumb wrong notion fallacy.

---

Direct quote from Starman:

quote:

---

As it stands, the dates cannot be unsubstantiated!!!

---

Classic example of asking that someone "prove a negative". Your words. Doesn't matter what I say. You impaled yourself on the logical fallacy.

quote:

---

Basically, yes we do. Jesus died a certain year. Check your calendar to get the general time, it is set to Him after all, the year of our Lord!!!! Jesus was the one that prophesied it!! Some say He alluded to a Daniel prophesy the prophesied the same!!

---

Basic logic eludes you doesn't it? The fact that we may know that Jesus died before AD 70 does not mean he actually made the prediction. We only have the the gospel of Matthew account that he made the prediction and we do not know that the book of Matthew was written before AD 70. People's memories play tricks on them, particularly when they are trying to "build up" the reputation of a revered leader as a prophet. We don't even know for sure WHO wrote the book of Matthew, WHEN it was written, or which words are part of the original account and which words might have been ADDED later by some overzealous scribes trying to enhance the reputation of Jesus as a prophet. You seem to have the quaint notion that the disciples were following Jesus around taking notes in their little spiral bound stenographer's notebooks. Unlikely, to say the least. The disciples of Jesus were a rough hewn lot - likely for the most part illiterate. The disciple Matthew was supposedly a tax collector, we do not know that he was literate. It was not the prestigious occupation of a scholarly man - more like the patronage job of a political hack. There is some disagreement as to whether he was the actual author of the gospel bearing his name. 'Both the style of Greek used and the means of describing events lead some to conclude that the author of the gospel was not a companion of the historic Jesus. Some use the designation "Matthew the Evangelist" to refer to the anonymous gospel author, and "Matthew the Apostle" to refer to the Biblical figure described.' (Matthew the Apostle - Wikipedia)
In any event ascribing those words to Jesus cannot be proven one way or the other, so it cannot count as a verified prediction.

quote:

---

Are you going to now try to make Daniel after 70 AD as well!!??

---

No. And why would I? It is immaterial as to whether Jesus actually said it or not. And it is quite a stretch to say that Daniel predicted the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Again, make your own arguments. Stop trying to make mine. Besides being the logical fallacy of a strawman, it is quite rude.In any event, predicting the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple was not exactly a brilliant prophesy for someone in the time of Daniel or in the first century. Jerusalem had lots of enemies in both periods and one thing that victorious enemies did in both periods was knock down cities and temples in a scorched earth policy when there were wars or rebellions.