What is to be taken literally?

Hello Angel, Why? Why death? Why death from the front and a blessing from behind?In another message you said we are created in God's image, and that God has a face with eyes, ears, etc. (What color is His hair?)Wouldn't looking into the face of God be like looking in the mirror?

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Why? Why death? Why death from the front and a blessing from behind?

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Because God said that to look upon His face meant death. For me to be able to see His back, would be the greatest gift ever, a blessing, which is an oppinion, IOW you do not have to feel the same, and thats ok.

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In another message you said we are created in God's image, and that God has a face with eyes, ears, etc. (What color is His hair?)

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I do not know the color of His hair, nor have I seen His face, if I had, I wouldn't be here typing this now. I gather though that this was meant to be a rhetorical question.

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Wouldn't looking into the face of God be like looking in the mirror?

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Father=male....no, I am a female. Now for another obvious answer....When you look in the mirror, do you see me? No, you don't, does that mean that we do not have the same features aka..eyes, ears, nose, mouth? Another rhetorical question, I assume.

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Angel

Not really. When someone states that they have knowledge about God's appearance it seems a completely reasonable question. So then we weren't all created in His image, or at least women are made less in His image than men are.I guess I am following these seemingly nitpicky lines to get this point: What leads you to believe that "created in His own image" literally refers to God's physical appearance, rather than spiritual make-up?

Angel,In reading this it sounds to me that you are identifying a person as their body? This of course is how we experience each other in life. Yet I don't think I am identical to my body.I know that people can experience such severe brain trauma that they forget who they are. They have to relearn walking, talking, etc. After they have done this although their body is recognizable to their family they not only don't remember their family but they don't remember who they were and are a different personality, with different tastes, moods, styles of expression etc.I asking you seriously who or what do you think you are?lfen

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When someone states that they have knowledge about God's appearance it seems a completely reasonable question.

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I have knowledge of His appearance, as I have knowledge of yours, I have never seen you, but would naturally assume that you have eyes, ears, etc. Am I correct in assuming this?

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So then we weren't all created in His image, or at least women are made less in His image than men are.

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Well, lets see women were made for man, so yes, I guess we would fall under that catagory. I do not have a problem admitting that my husband has authority in my house. Not that I have no input, but he does and always will have final say. I say this because I get the impression that you feel men and women are equal, and in many ways they are, but in many ways they aren't. Another post at another time though I guess.

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What leads you to believe that "created in His own image" literally refers to God's physical appearance, rather than spiritual make-up?

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Have you not read the Old Testament? If you have, do you not recall when God gave Moses a favor? Moses seen His back, but couldn't see His face?

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Angel

Maybe I should give you some background on myself, I have a Minor in Religion, and I have a PhD in Psychology. I am aware of every mental disorder. Now with that said, I don't recall ever saying that I identify anyone, or any Being, by their body itself. I have answered the question, of what I felt God looked like. Never have I identified anyone as being a simple body.

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I asking you seriously who or what do you think you are?

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I am a human being, I have flesh, yes. But personality (a sense of ones self) comes from the brain in the form of an identity. My body is just a body, my soul, is what is important.

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Angel

You are correct for me, but not for every one I know...(Your characteristic list would also describe, say, an ostrich; so I'm not sure how amazing of an assumption you are making there...) Do you think God has a penis? I do think men and women are equal but different; so are men and men, and women and women. There are whole threads about this subject - a week or two ago they were looking for a female with your perspective... I'll ask again - why do you take this to literally mean a physical back?I feel like you are missing my intent in this thread - why is it that you take any mention of seeing God or God's image in a literal, physical vein?

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(Your characteristic list would also describe, say, an ostrich; so I'm not sure how amazing of an assumption you are making there...)

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Funny you would say that, since I was characterizing you? Doesn't matter, not the point. BTW ostriches have beaks, not mouths.

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Do you think God has a penis?

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I would assume that He does. Though I really don't see anything from this question, but someone trying to play games, instead of asking real questions for discussion?

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I do think men and women are equal but different; so are men and men, and women and women. There are whole threads about this subject - a week or two ago they were looking for a female with your perspective...

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Great, I am sure the women would have loved to hear my replys (rhetorical). But, anytime, anywhere, I will back that topic up.

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I'll ask again - why do you take this to literally mean a physical back?

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And again I will answer literal, it doesn't matter how many times you ask me, you are still going to recieve the same response.

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I feel like you are missing my intent in this thread - why is it that you take any mention of seeing God or God's image in a literal, physical vein?

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I am afraid that I am not missing the point of your question, but rather, you do not want to except my answer. Which is fine with me. Again it is LITERAL because of the scriptures in the OT. LITERAL.

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Angel

That exactly the same as saying we don't have mouths because we have teeth. Birds have mouths. Though, not the point, as you say... I'm not trying to play games. I'm rather amazed by your bodily view of God. I can come up with no conceivable reason how or why God would have a penis. Does He urinate? Does He use it for reproductive purposes?It follows: Does God need eyes to see, ears to hear, a mouth to eat and speak? I'll ask again - why do you take this to literally mean a physical back?I understand that you take it "LITERAL", but why, specifically?

Again, and for the last time, I take it literally because that is what is taught in the scriptures. It leaves room for no other conclusion but a literal one (when speaking to Moses). Furthermore, why is this important to you? You obviously don't believe in God, I take that from your rhetorical comments/'questions'. So why is it important for you to know why I believe that man was literally made in Gods own image. The Bible leads to no other conclusion but that it is to be taken literally. You could also argue, I presume, that Jesus was not to be takin literally. The question has been answered, maybe it's not the one that you want, but it has been answered.

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Angel

How is the literalism taught in the scriptures? That is what I mean by "specifically". It seems you think people who disagree with you about God's "body" don't believe in God - that is extremely close-minded, not to mention downright rude.I could easily throw it back in your face, and state that you obviously don't have a true relationship with God, otherwise you wouldn't have such simplistic notions about His "body". But I'm not saying that - because different people approach God in different ways.By the way, I haven't asked any rhetorical questions. That is why when some of them weren't answered, I asked them again. Perhaps what is obvious to you is not so obvious to others. (It seemed you were having similar issues with lfen - I assure you, we are both honest with our questions.) Being an open-minded person, I try to understand other people's point of view. You are the first person I've ever heard state that God has physical genitalia. I'm interested in understanding that point of view. You've said this a few times, but haven't explained why no other conclusions can be made. If you make an assertion, be prepared to have someone ask what the foundation for that assertion is. Simply frustratingly restating the assertion several times is not the same as explaining it or backing it up.

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I know that people can experience such severe brain trauma that they forget who they are. They have to relearn walking, talking, etc. After they have done this although their body is recognizable to their family they not only don't remember their family but they don't remember who they were and are a different personality, with different tastes, moods, styles of expression etc.

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That seems to support an argument to a wholly material existance; thats exactly what one might expect to see if behaviour is a programme that had to be re-written.

And while we are on the topic of gods physicality, I want to ask about navels. If man was created in gods image, and man has a navel, does god also have a navel?And if so, who gave birth to god?

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It seems you think people who disagree with you about God's "body" don't believe in God - that is extremely close-minded, not to mention downright rude.

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Wooooo, No that is not even close to what I said. I see that you like to take peoples words and make them your own. For starters it i s obvious that you don't. I don't condemn you for it, I was only making a realitistic comment. We really don't want to get on the subject of rudeness now do we? Look back at your 'questions' and see the answer.

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I could easily throw it back in your face, and state that you obviously don't have a true relationship with God, otherwise you wouldn't have such simplistic notions about His "body". But I'm not saying that - because different people approach God in different ways.

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So, let me see if I am hearing you correctly, because I believe what God said is the truth, I don't believe in him.? That is almost comical.

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By the way, I haven't asked any rhetorical questions. That is why when some of them weren't answered, I asked them again.

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Really, I seem to remember a few rhetorical questions. Again, maybe you should look back at your 'questions'.

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Perhaps what is obvious to you is not so obvious to others.

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Yes, I know this. However, when something has been answered over and over again, it gets to the point where you just have to agree to disagree. I have said that it is ok that you don't believe as I do, you on the other hand, want to keep the same question, though already answered, repeating. I will say it again, in case you missed it. IT IS OK FOR YOU NOT TO BELIEVE AS I DO.

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(It seemed you were having similar issues with lfen - I assure you, we are both honest with our questions.)

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Who, I might add unlike yourself, admitted that it was an honest question on his/her part stated in a rhetorical manner.

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Being an open-minded person, I try to understand other people's point of view. You are the first person I've ever heard state that God has physical genitalia. I'm interested in understanding that point of view.

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Maybe you are not as 'open-minded' as you think. Especially if something like this gets you so wound up. I have no reason to think that He doesn't. I have no proof that He doesn't. Let's turn this around, what proof do you have that He doesn't? And why do you feel that way? Proof, not belief, because obviously you do not accept belief as a ligitamate answer, so show me proof, evidence.

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You've said this a few times, but haven't explained why no other conclusions can be made.

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Well, yes I have, but for arguments sake, I will explain why again. If God can cover Moses eyes with His hand, and if Moses can physically see His back, and if someone, though they wouldn't live to tell it, can see His face. That has to lead to one conclusion, that He has hands, a back, and a face. How is it that that is so hard to understand? You don't have to agree, but you have to accept that I feel this way, and believe this way.

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If you make an assertion, be prepared to have someone ask what the foundation for that assertion is.

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Really? I am glad that you feel that way, and I am looking forward to your response with some facts, not belief, facts to my above question.

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Simply frustratingly restating the assertion several times is not the same as explaining it or backing it up.

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Again, I answered your question, it just doesn't seem to be the one that suits you. It is meant to be literal, because it is written literally. If you can physically see something, that would make it physical, am I correct, or has there been a new scientific advance that I am not aware of? Since I take it that He has a physical body, because it is written that He does, that makes it literal. Can you honestly not find my answer? It isn't written in a parable, which may be confusing, it is written to be taken literally.

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Angel

Hello again Ned!! It's nice to have you twisting what I said again! Lol! Just kidding!Ok here we go, first what I meant was that there are HARDLY ANY reasons why else NOT to accept Genesis. There isn't any introduction at the begininng of Genesis that says, "Then God told this parable," or "The following text is just a beautiful allegory." It's pretty obvious that the Creation account in Genesis isn't SUPPOSED to be taken figuratively.Unfortunately, all some evolutionists do is bash on creationists until the creationists try and compromise, thus escaping persecution. While I don't think it matters eternally speaking, I think that God will honor those who don't succumb to peer pressure, which is the number one reason any Christian believes in macroevolution and not take Genesis literally.
Then in response to your unnecessary mud slinging, all I will say is that YOU are the one wasting your time arguing with me, if I knew NOTHING about this, then why would I be here? It's true I don't know as much as people who major in this, (obviously), but I know enough to stump some people lol! I used to know a lot more about evolution last spring, because I was taking Biology and writing a research paper on this subject, but now I'm only taking Chemistry lol! So anyways, I'm sorry if I offended someone, but Angel didn't say anything hm... I wonder why she didn't do the mud slinging instead of you? Maybe you should let the person I "offended" do the correcting, I don't know I'm just saying...This message has been edited by Proboscis, 11-10-2004 01:44 PM