Do atoms confirm or refute the bible?

This seems to be beyond a joke, and Wiki is already busy responding to an array of legal actions - it allows proven dis-history of Arabia to pass as history, and uses eronous reportings as its back-up. Here we find this report, which would normally be the talk of the scientific towns, to be included as an historical item. This one seems like hellenist myth of dieties bashing their heads for supremecy. Besides, why harken to one desperate claim, when it is surrounded by a vaccum - do you really believe this? Sorry, I don't, and say so boldly.We know, aside from no evidence by any bona fide source, it is also in contradiction of other far more reliable writings: Babel, as a city and civilisation, is well recorded in the OT, and later in prophetic writings [book of kings, ezekiel, mordecai, esther, etc]as being well under 6000, as is the Noah flood report [Hamurabi].

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Eridu in myth
In the Sumerian king list, Eridu is named as the city of the first kings. The kinglist continues:

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In Eridu, Alulim became king; he ruled for 28800 years. Alalngar ruled for 36000 years. 2 kings; they ruled for 64800 years. Then Eridu fell and the kingship was taken to Bad-tibira.
The king list gave particularly long rules to the kings who ruled before a flood occurred, and shows how the centre of power progressively moved from the south to the north of the country.

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Adapa U-an, elsewhere called the first man, was a half-god, half-man culture hero, called by the title Abgallu (Ab=water, Gal=Great, Lu=Man) of Eridu. He was considered to have brought civilisation to the city from Dilmun (probably Bahrain), and he served Alulim.Babylonian texts also talk of the creation of Eridu by the god Marduk as the first city, "the holy city, the dwelling of their [the other gods] delight".

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It can very well be that Eridu is linked to the Annunaki.

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Some modern researchers[citation needed] following David Rohl, have conjectured that Eridu, to the south of Ur, was the original Babel and site of the Tower of Babel

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Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

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IamJoseph writes:
Evolution is based on periodical, transit developments - and no such imprints exist.

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That sentence means nothing. You're going to have to learn to speak English properly if you want to discuss complex subjects.

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It means a lot. Would you accept that Martians have been living on earth, then they became today's humans, with no transit point evidence? If you accept ToE, there is a gradual elevation, adaptation and emergence of species, communities, populations, and in the case of humans, also imprints of mental prowess grads: first the wheel, then the pulley, then cars and planes.So of course, one needs some evidence how, when and where the thread exists. If you have alledged imprints of agriculture 200K years ago - why does it mean nothing to ask for imprints of graduation every 1000 years - as with the writings in the OT - which gives a specific thread of history, with names, addresses and datings which can be verified?Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

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Your "no kings, wars, nations, cities, wheels, dieties, populations - nothingness pre-6000" is either a lie or evidence that you are delusional. I deal with archaeological sites and I have evidence from my own work of a lot of things "pre-6000" -- and my colleagues around the world have a lot more such evidence. For you to claim that it does not exist says a lot more about you than it does archaeological evidence. If you are trying to convince others of your views you are in fact doing the opposite.

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A serious question: Why are you making such vacuous claims? Are you witnessing, and getting spiritual points for presenting your religious views to non-believers?

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While I respect archeology and those who study it, you cannot hold that as a stick to beat out any pointers of logic which counters what is claimed in today's neo science sectors. We also saw professional archeologists who, only 20 years ago, boldly declared King David and Solomon as mythical figures: they have never recovered from shame following the tel dan find. Nor did we need the dan find to show those archeologists as idiots, and worse [biased] - because there was already sufficient evidence and cross-nation evidence, and 100s of relics which was acceptable evidence [as opposed proof] not to make those rash statements.Now when it comes to speech, this is perhaps one of the most pivotal factors for humanity - second only to the emergence of life itself; speech is the only factor which seperates humans from all other life forms. Darwin was clearly wrong by dividing species only by skeletal and biological imprints; genesis was clearly correct in seperating humans as a seperate species [aka 'kind'/Gen], by virture of their speech. Clearly, no life form as 'ADAPTED' and there has not been 'SPECIATION' with regards speech endowed life form grads: the winning point rests with genesis.And speech is marked by the factor of a NAME - not colored beads and cave scratchings. It appears only the factor which amounts to non-confusional proof is shied away from - and only that which is an academic, lab de-constructed report is available. And woe unto any who make critical challenges. Fprtunately, my proffession is not archeology - which means I cannot be blackmailed in negating any career moves for asking for more evidence and challenging bogus claims. My pursuit is truth, and if this is elusive, than truthfullness will do.

I asked for a NAME - one name, it need not be 100K years old. It has to be just 6001 - but it has to be proven as real - non-confulsingly. And I lose. The rest is a technicolored yawn.

Note the dates ~7200-6500 years ago sagiga in their own language.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

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Note the dates ~7200-6500 years ago sagiga in their own language.

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I did note the dates. Aside from there being no names - for a period of 1200 years before the 6000 point, the entire validity of its dating is based on this statement:"The Ubaid pottery of southern Mesopotamia has been connected via 'Choga Mami Transitional' ware to the pottery of the Samarra period culture"That statement is alligned to the Sumerians, which did not happen till some 2000 years later:

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http://www.sumerian.org/sumerfaq.htm#s30

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The Sumerians were the first to write spoken language.

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The report that writing in Egypt is older than in Sumer is based on archaeologists in Egypt who use calibrated Carbon-14 dating, whereas Sumerologists are a conservative lot who keep quoting the conventional 3100 B.C. date for the invention of writing, when it should be 3400 B.C. according to calibrated C-14 dates.

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The last major overview dealing with Mesopotamia as a whole that I know of which collected the various calibrated C-14 dates was that by Mellaart in Antiquity 53 (1979), with important comments in Antiquity 54 (1980) - these comments acknowledged that the extremely high Mesopotamian chronology that resulted should be reduced by an average 100 years due to calibrated dates for wood/timber being too high by that average. The end result was still to support a high chronology rather than a middle chronology, especially for the transition between Uruk IV and Uruk III (AKA Jemdet Nasr). This transition appears to have occurred around 3300 BC using calibrated dates with the 100 year reduction.

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Considering also that C14 is not reliable for short period datings, one can see it is unacceptable to make cnclusions based solely on academy views, which are not backed by actual and/or surrounding evidences; in fact we should demand even more - logic must apply and be manifest. We should not accept what is given with even less than biblical scriptural evidences, and that is what appears happening in the frenzy to dis-prove the manifest. This is why I ask for a NAME - and one which is verifiable - as the real proof of a speech endowed human.If it is unacceptable that speech would prevail without a name, it must be also unacceptable that a speech endowed community would not possess names for mothers, fathers, lords, leaders, rulers, kings, dieties, etc. What else was the speech used for?Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.

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A serious question: Why are you making such vacuous claims? Are you witnessing, and getting spiritual points for presenting your religious views to non-believers?

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I have no religious views, nor did I make any religious claims. IMHO, whatever is based on 'belief', and nothing else, is not legitimate. That I see the OT as transcendent of other scriptures, is because it has merit, historically, scientifically and factually, and this does not mean I am making religious claims.Nor is this a valid charge even when one stands by creationism and monotheism: these are very logical and scientific premises, and we have no alternative premises as its counter. If one does not uphold creationism and monotheism - he is being unscientific and clinging to a premise of a belief - namely a scientific belief, as opposed a scientific evidence. You will find all my deliberations are based on science, history, maths and logic - at least I try to incline all my views that way.

C-14 dating is highly reliable for dates 50000 years or less. Beyond that it would not be reliable due to the fact that most of it will decay by 50000 years particularly when calibration techniques are used and the result is taken to include standard deviations. The 700 year range is more than 1 standard deviation .

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

I don't undertand your point.You asked for a name and I provided one.Case closed; you have been refuted.

I've given you a name, you ignorant fuck.

That isn't needed! Pointing out the facts of the matter demonstrates the intellectual level of others. Leave out the emphasis please.

Admin Ned:
IaJ is already well aware of my opinions on his mental state from another thread. He's always welcome to comment on mine. If I'm right about him, a bit of honesty might do him some good. There are definitely fixations, and, IMO, something's very wrong. I know this is off topic, but so are most of the recent posts, and the thread is old and dead anyway.Larni: You're far from alone, obviously, in your view of IaJ. And I don't mean just on EvC. I just found this:IamJoseph #fundieOr just try googling "IamJoseph", and there's that "F" word again. IamJosephYou work with the mentally ill, if I remember your profession correctly, so you may be in a better position to understand Joe than most people. Use (and abuse) of language is the interesting thing, especially the inability to recognise mistakes.NCBIWe all see plenty of examples of Joe's language use.What do you diagnose?{ABE}Read the comments on FSDT. Edited by bluegenes, : afterthought

I responded to your so-called name - it is myth. Strange, that the 6000 period is denied, while 28,000 year king's rules are boasted of.It is clear that most people are only just waking up to some facts they ignored too long. It is becoming a great stretch to over-turn a simple statute in the OT - everyone is scrambling to find a link which even indirectly infers a human saying a single word pre-6000. The anxst is a telling factor here - and let none jump their guns and make out I am talking nonesense. I see that genesis stands up to the best of science. Thus I ask: what if speech was non existent pre-6000?! This is an encumbent question no matter what one's inclinations are. You should be asking why we don't have 100s of 1000s of names, and why do all names allign only and exactly with genesis's bold, specific and critical dating - even to the year and day!What *IF* this be correct - what's it mean - does it make any dif? My challenge for such a thread stands.

No one proved a name, there is no fixation, your link has nothing to do with me, nor is your responsa of reductionism to personal attacks anything other than that of a loser. You don't have a name pre-6000, so admit this first - then attack me.

So Babylonian, Akkadian, Sumerian etc. myths are out but OT myths are factual?

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969