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Author Topic:   Scientific errors in the Bible
Percy
Member
Posts: 22610
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 91 of 163 (22673)
11-14-2002 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Mister Pamboli
11-14-2002 9:48 AM


Oh, definitely c. I've felt that from the beginning - thanks for providing the proper label. Your talent for breaking down a discussion into component elements is very helpful.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Mister Pamboli, posted 11-14-2002 9:48 AM Mister Pamboli has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22610
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 92 of 163 (22679)
11-14-2002 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by w_fortenberry
11-14-2002 8:35 AM


w_fortenberry writes:
Where is the point about which you propose the sun and the earth orbit?
I was talking about the earth/moon system, but the earth/sun system also orbits a common point. The sun is so much more massive than the earth, more than a million times, that that point is probably well within the sun's surface.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by w_fortenberry, posted 11-14-2002 8:35 AM w_fortenberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by mark24, posted 11-14-2002 9:24 PM Percy has not replied
 Message 98 by w_fortenberry, posted 11-20-2002 4:22 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22610
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 93 of 163 (22684)
11-14-2002 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by w_fortenberry
11-14-2002 8:50 AM


I was deriding your position, not you. For good examples of arguing the person rather than the position see the Jet Retrospective at Message 20 of the Idiocy of the most amusing kind.... thread.
w_fortenberry writes:
Let me once again repeat, I am not aware of any evidence of the falsity of the geocentric view found in the Bible.
As Mister Pamboli has already pointed out, and more than once, since you've already professed knowlege of evidence *for* the solar-centric view, then the only way you can claim ignorance of evidence against geocentrism is if the two positions were independent of one another, ie, that both could be true. However, the two positions are contradictory and mutually exclusive. Evidence for one is evidence against the other. What you're doing is a long drawn out exercise in wasting people's time. We're hoping you have some actual point to make at the end of all this.
That new format is great, isn't it? I wish I could take credit for thinking of it, but I saw it at some other boards. I'll be adding a UBB code for it sometime soon.
--Percy

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 Message 86 by w_fortenberry, posted 11-14-2002 8:50 AM w_fortenberry has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 816 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 94 of 163 (22788)
11-14-2002 6:45 PM


The earth-sun system can be said to orbit around its barycenter, a point nearly at the middle of the sun:
http://spaceplace.jpl.nasa.gov/barycntr.htm
The sun is about 330,000 times the mass of the earth, so it's a pretty fair bowling ball to the ping-pong ball that's us. Mr Fortenberry, try Stellar Distances - Parallax to see your first evidence that the geocentric model is false.

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Coragyps, posted 11-15-2002 7:57 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5277 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 95 of 163 (22801)
11-14-2002 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Percy
11-14-2002 10:50 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Percipient:
w_fortenberry writes:
Where is the point about which you propose the sun and the earth orbit?
I was talking about the earth/moon system, but the earth/sun system also orbits a common point. The sun is so much more massive than the earth, more than a million times, that that point is probably well within the sun's surface.

Indeedy, this is how the planet seekers go about their business. The star "appears" to wobble about a point within its own volume. The larger & closer the planet, the larger the wobble. The system rotates about it's own center of gravity. Because stars are so massive relative to their planetary systems, that point is feasably always within the star itself.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
[This message has been edited by mark24, 11-14-2002]

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 Message 92 by Percy, posted 11-14-2002 10:50 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by compmage, posted 11-15-2002 12:38 AM mark24 has not replied

  
compmage
Member (Idle past 5235 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 96 of 163 (22819)
11-15-2002 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by mark24
11-14-2002 9:24 PM


quote:
Originally posted by mark24:

Because stars are so massive relative to their planetary systems, that point is feasably always within the star itself.

With the exceptions of multiple star systems.
------------------
compmage

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 816 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 97 of 163 (22896)
11-15-2002 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Coragyps
11-14-2002 6:45 PM


Ooh! Ooh! I've figured out how to make parallax work in a geogentric system! The sun orbits the Earth, once per year. All the stars (at least those within a few hundred light years of us) then just have to describe little circles the size of the Sun's orbit around some nondescript point in space!
Do you folks think this is ad hoc enough to make it onto one of the really good YEC sites, like Walt Brown's?

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 Message 94 by Coragyps, posted 11-14-2002 6:45 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
w_fortenberry
Member (Idle past 6189 days)
Posts: 178
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Joined: 04-19-2002


Message 98 of 163 (23402)
11-20-2002 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Percy
11-14-2002 10:50 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Percipient:
I was talking about the earth/moon system, but the earth/sun system also orbits a common point. The sun is so much more massive than the earth, more than a million times, that that point is probably well within the sun's surface.
But the planetary orbits are said to be eliptical. This does not fit with your statement that "the earth/sun system also orbits a common point." Can you provide an explanation for the elliptical orbits of the planets?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Percy, posted 11-14-2002 10:50 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Percy, posted 11-20-2002 5:51 PM w_fortenberry has replied
 Message 101 by joz, posted 12-01-2002 4:28 PM w_fortenberry has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22610
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 99 of 163 (23409)
11-20-2002 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by w_fortenberry
11-20-2002 4:22 PM


w_fortenberry writes:
But the planetary orbits are said to be eliptical. This does not fit with your statement that "the earth/sun system also orbits a common point." Can you provide an explanation for the elliptical orbits of the planets?
Sure, right after you give a straight answer for how you could possibly be ignorant of so much common knowledge, and right after you address some of the evidence already presented to you.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by w_fortenberry, posted 11-20-2002 4:22 PM w_fortenberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by w_fortenberry, posted 12-01-2002 3:28 PM Percy has replied

  
w_fortenberry
Member (Idle past 6189 days)
Posts: 178
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Joined: 04-19-2002


Message 100 of 163 (25148)
12-01-2002 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Percy
11-20-2002 5:51 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Percipient:
Sure, right after you give a straight answer for how you could possibly be ignorant of so much common knowledge,
I have not claimed such ignorance.
quote:
and right after you address some of the evidence already presented to you.
You have presented the evidence of orbital mechanics. My question directly adresses that evidence. Please provide an explanation for the eliptical orbits of the planets.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Percy, posted 11-20-2002 5:51 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Coragyps, posted 12-01-2002 8:39 PM w_fortenberry has replied
 Message 108 by Percy, posted 12-04-2002 7:02 PM w_fortenberry has replied
 Message 110 by zipzip, posted 12-05-2002 2:56 AM w_fortenberry has not replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 101 of 163 (25155)
12-01-2002 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by w_fortenberry
11-20-2002 4:22 PM


quote:
Originally posted by w_fortenberry:
But the planetary orbits are said to be eliptical. This does not fit with your statement that "the earth/sun system also orbits a common point." Can you provide an explanation for the elliptical orbits of the planets?
All orbits are eliptical (apart from parabolic and hyperbolic ones at any rate) even circular ones which are just special cases of elliptical orbits where e = 0....
And the point orbited around is one of the focus points of the ellipse, termed the principle focus in the case of orbiting bodies...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by w_fortenberry, posted 11-20-2002 4:22 PM w_fortenberry has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 816 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 102 of 163 (25177)
12-01-2002 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by w_fortenberry
12-01-2002 3:28 PM


quote:
Please provide an explanation for the eliptical orbits of the planets.
Oh please... Kepler and Newton put this in bed about three centuries ago! That's how everything orbits!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by w_fortenberry, posted 12-01-2002 3:28 PM w_fortenberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by w_fortenberry, posted 12-04-2002 3:56 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 816 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 103 of 163 (25179)
12-01-2002 8:54 PM


Has this factoid from the Bible come up yet?
Leviticus chapters 13 and 14 go into considerable detail on the detection and cure of leprosy. Lev 13:49 and 14:37, in particular, describe cloth and houses that "have the plague:" it causes a reddish or greenish color in the fabric or the plaster. Has Mycobacterium leprae ever been grown in culture, on cloth, plaster, or even agar-agar, and shown to cause "hollow strakes, greenish or reddish?" And has sprinkling of bird blood in an earthern vessel over running water been subjected to double-blind studies for treatment of leprosy?

  
w_fortenberry
Member (Idle past 6189 days)
Posts: 178
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Joined: 04-19-2002


Message 104 of 163 (25460)
12-04-2002 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Coragyps
12-01-2002 8:39 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Coragyps:
Oh please... Kepler and Newton put this in bed about three centuries ago! That's how everything orbits!
quote:
Originally posted by joz
All orbits are eliptical (apart from parabolic and hyperbolic ones at any rate) even circular ones which are just special cases of elliptical orbits where e = 0....
This is not in agreement with Percipient's formula of orbital mechanics. What causes all orbits to form elipses? What causes an eccentricity greater than zero?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Coragyps, posted 12-01-2002 8:39 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by joz, posted 12-04-2002 4:24 PM w_fortenberry has replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 163 (25462)
12-04-2002 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by w_fortenberry
12-04-2002 3:56 PM


quote:
WF:
This is not in agreement with Percipient's formula of orbital mechanics. What causes all orbits to form elipses? What causes an eccentricity greater than zero?
It is...
Try this explanation Object not found!
Look through all 3 sections and then work through the math yourself...
[This message has been edited by joz, 12-04-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by w_fortenberry, posted 12-04-2002 3:56 PM w_fortenberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by w_fortenberry, posted 12-04-2002 6:19 PM joz has replied

  
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