Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,807 Year: 3,064/9,624 Month: 909/1,588 Week: 92/223 Day: 3/17 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is there any proof of life right after flood?
Jackal25
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 18 (99735)
04-13-2004 5:57 PM


Someone told me this and I just want to hear what everyone else has to say, but I was told that the population growth statistics show that there was zero life at the estimated time of the end of the flood. Does anyone have any references that show this to be wrong? I really have nothing to go on but what I was told so any info would be appreciated.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Loudmouth, posted 04-13-2004 6:57 PM Jackal25 has not replied
 Message 3 by kofh2u, posted 04-13-2004 7:22 PM Jackal25 has not replied
 Message 5 by wj, posted 04-14-2004 12:47 AM Jackal25 has not replied

Loudmouth
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 18 (99741)
04-13-2004 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jackal25
04-13-2004 5:57 PM


If you take the CURRENT rate of population growth, then yes the population goes down to one about 5000 to 10,000 years ago. However, current population growth is due to increases in agricultural and health technology which have doubled the expected life expectancy. Also factor in historic scourges like the Plague and other niceties like warfare and you can see why current growth rates should not be extrapolated into the past. Using the same logic, I could estimate the age of the earth to be about 3 months using the doubling time of E. coli (about 20 min) and the estimated number of E. coli in the world. If the world were even a few years old, we would be swimming around in a deep bacterial slop worldwide.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jackal25, posted 04-13-2004 5:57 PM Jackal25 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by coffee_addict, posted 05-10-2004 5:42 AM Loudmouth has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 3 of 18 (99750)
04-13-2004 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jackal25
04-13-2004 5:57 PM


Neanderthal = zero
Not exactly.
The "flood" has largely been discounted as a real event that was concerned with real water. Both the word water and flood have been used symbolically for ages, and in particular in the Hebrew scriptures, to mean "peoples and nations" and huge "migrations" or amassing of large crowds such as armies.
The best interpretation of Noah's Flood to date can be found in the Freudian Bible Translation and Interpretation.
There, the story is assumed to be metaphorical. The "flood" is a first hand report of the sudden rise in the Modern Homo Sapien population about 40,000 years ago. This is confirmed by the science studies, and dovetails well with St Peter's statement that "a day is a 1000 years."
So, for 40 "nights and days," meaning 40,000 years, Modern Homo Sapiens, the "water," the peoples and nations, exploded,... population wise, as if a sudden flood or tidal wave. They apparently out competed Neanderthal Man, the dominate Hominoid before this, driving him away, and probably exterminating him in the most noble fashion and behavior common to Modern Homos.
The "ark" which is symbolic of a closed cube shaped box, refers to the skull of Modern Homo Sapiens. Inside was the "three floors" of the mind: the Conscious Mind, the Subconscious Mind, and the Unconscious Mind.
The rainbow of seven colors, which is mentioned, referred to the seven modes of thinking available to us, the seven spirits of Revelation 1:16, the seven psychological Freudian-Jungian Archetypal apparati: Id, Libido, Ego, Anima, Self, Superego, Harmony.
That Neanderrthal was without language, his vocal cords anatomically in the wrong place, he had never created names for the animals and wild life. In his absence and with the power to speak language, the metaphor tells us that Noah gave names to the animals... for the first time ever heard on the planet!
Anyway, the Freudian Bible Translation and Interpretation incorporates the whole metphor, nice and neat, right in the story. Brackets are used to fill in the ideas, and the whole interpretation is literally just a suggestion for the reader.
This is so powerful in that it makes sense, it avoids all the denigrating secular remarks and disparagements. AND... it even challenges them to be reasonable. To recognize that this is an ancient report, an eye witness report of an important biological event.
Gen. 6:1 And it came to pass, when men (hominoids) began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen. 6:2 That the sons of God (pre-Homo Spaiens) saw the daughters of men (Neanderthal) that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen. 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit (of Natural Law) shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh (and must adapt to my Reality): yet his days, (Neanderthal) shall be an hundred and twenty (thousand) years.
Gen. 6:4 There were giants (Homo Erectus) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God (pre-Homo Spaiens) came in unto the daughters of men (Neanderthal), and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men (hybrids leading to Modern Homo Sapiens) which were of old, men of renown.
Gen. 6:5 And GOD, (the Reality of Universal Power) saw that the wickedness of man (including Neanderthal) was great in the earth, and that every imagination of (his abstraction of Reality) the thoughts of his heart (or his psyche) was only evil (and unrealistic) continually (as regards the process of adaption).
Gen. 6:6 And it, (the evolutionary process), repented the LORD that he had made man (all hominoids in general) on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart (that cataclysmic changes were to come).
Gen. 6:7 And the LORD, Almighty Universe) said, I will destroy man (of these types and species) whom I have created (to mentally, in analogy, abstract consciously a model and schmata of Universe) destroy them from the face of the earth (extinction!); both (this species and kind of) man, and (his idea of) the beast, and (his idea of) the creeping thing, and (his idea of) the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jackal25, posted 04-13-2004 5:57 PM Jackal25 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by SRO2, posted 04-13-2004 8:25 PM kofh2u has replied
 Message 13 by Bonobojones, posted 05-10-2004 7:14 PM kofh2u has not replied

SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 18 (99761)
04-13-2004 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by kofh2u
04-13-2004 7:22 PM


Re: Neanderthal = zero
All I get from this is god said he was just a big 'ol screw up...and who the hell is he apologing to?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by kofh2u, posted 04-13-2004 7:22 PM kofh2u has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by kofh2u, posted 05-10-2004 8:39 PM SRO2 has not replied

wj
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 18 (99835)
04-14-2004 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jackal25
04-13-2004 5:57 PM


This article may be of interest to you. It specifically addresses the fantasy population argument from Morris. This article addresses a similar argument from a website. And another article

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jackal25, posted 04-13-2004 5:57 PM Jackal25 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by kofh2u, posted 04-14-2004 2:08 AM wj has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 6 of 18 (99843)
04-14-2004 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by wj
04-14-2004 12:47 AM


neanderthal bones = population est.
Homo Sapiens has been here in small numbers for quite a while.
The exact point at which one calls people 'modern' is truly a matter of opinion. Most say that 'modern' humans arose 150,000 years ago, but they had some primitive skeletal features. As do most 'modern' skeletons found until around 25,000 years ago. Indeed, there is a veritable gradation in morphology of skeletons from 500,000 years to the present. There are no big morphological jumps.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by wj, posted 04-14-2004 12:47 AM wj has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by kofh2u, posted 05-10-2004 9:11 PM kofh2u has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 7 of 18 (106750)
05-09-2004 8:54 AM


Wow what a bunch of BS.
If you believe in God, then it rained for 40 days and nights.
There is no other explaination. Anything else is Blaspheme
There are too many translations of the Bible, all meant to confuse you and bring you further away from the Truth. Only translations that bring you the Truth are worthy of being called the word of God.
Pray on it.

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by kofh2u, posted 05-10-2004 8:53 PM riVeRraT has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 8 of 18 (106767)
05-09-2004 10:01 AM


If there was zero population after the Flood, or at least only the humans on the Ark were the only people on Earth, then the Great Pyramid of Cheops was built by less than ten people, and by non-Egyptian craftsmen at that. The Hebrew Bible is a great book, literalists make the Bible out to be a comic book, they are embarrasing, mindless sheep.
Brian.

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 05-09-2004 10:06 AM Brian has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 9 of 18 (106769)
05-09-2004 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Brian
05-09-2004 10:01 AM


Brian, I can well believe that pyramid part
but they really had to do some trucking to build the other megaliths found around the world.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Brian, posted 05-09-2004 10:01 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Brian, posted 05-09-2004 10:24 AM jar has replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 10 of 18 (106773)
05-09-2004 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
05-09-2004 10:06 AM


Re: Brian, I can well believe that pyramid part
It is painful at times!
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 05-09-2004 10:06 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 05-09-2004 10:35 AM Brian has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 11 of 18 (106775)
05-09-2004 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Brian
05-09-2004 10:24 AM


Re: Brian, I can well believe that pyramid part
Well, I'm pretty sure that Bigus Dickus could handle it.
nudge,nudge.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Brian, posted 05-09-2004 10:24 AM Brian has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 12 of 18 (107035)
05-10-2004 5:42 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Loudmouth
04-13-2004 6:57 PM


Loudmouth writes:
If the world were even a few years old, we would be swimming around in a deep bacterial slop worldwide.
I can just totally imagine swimming in this gigantic bacterial culture of yours.

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Loudmouth, posted 04-13-2004 6:57 PM Loudmouth has not replied

Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 18 (107208)
05-10-2004 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by kofh2u
04-13-2004 7:22 PM


Re: Neanderthal = zero
Kofhu2h=Clavinist

Reunite Gondwana!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by kofh2u, posted 04-13-2004 7:22 PM kofh2u has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 14 of 18 (107243)
05-10-2004 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by SRO2
04-13-2004 8:25 PM


Re: Neanderthal = zero
That is the theory, right?
1) This almighty Universe creates living organisms on the planet earth.
2) They either adapt to the only thing that is permanent, the changing environment of this "God of the living," the Almighty Power above, Reality, ... or, EXTINCTION... just another :mistake" or developmental step along the way to the perfection of an eternal species, aka Modern Homoiousian Sapiens."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by SRO2, posted 04-13-2004 8:25 PM SRO2 has not replied

kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3819 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 15 of 18 (107247)
05-10-2004 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by riVeRraT
05-09-2004 8:54 AM


Inerrancy is over! We can examine scripture freely!
Rev. 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks, (the Old Testament and the New Testament), standing before the God of the earth, (the Word of Universal Christianity).
Inerrancy is over! We can examine scripture freely!
Rev. 11:5 And if any man will hurt them (by dissent or heresy), fire (at the stake) proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, (by the offer of doctrine at variance with the Papal orthodoxy), he must in this manner be killed, (burned at the stake).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by riVeRraT, posted 05-09-2004 8:54 AM riVeRraT has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024