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Author | Topic: The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And conversely, one man's enabler is another man's blessing. Your spare change might enable that homeless guy to get high or it might enable him to get to a job interview. Are you his parent to decide for him or are you his brother to let him take responsibility? One mans blessing is another mans enabler. Does God pay your dental bills for you?
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
There was a flood coming but the little old lady was secure in her faith. Water ran down the street and a policeman offered to take her to higher ground but she believed God would take care of her. Water flooded the ground floor, she had to move upstairs and a boat came to the window to take her away but she believed God would take care of her. The water continued to rise, she had to crawl up onto the roof and a helicopter came to lift her off but she believed God would take care of her. Eventually she drowned and when she got to heaven she was bewildered. "I always believed God would take care of me." I do tend to look at God as having so much more than any of us have...thus why can't He be generous? God said, "I sent a policeman, I sent a boat, I sent a helicopter...." Maybe the help you need is there but you're too intent on your faith to recognize it.
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How can you share it if you don't know what it is?
To me, church is not a classroom where folks question what they believe--its a place where folks share their belief. Besides...I am unsure at this point what it is exactly that I believe...
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Ringo writes:
Isn't God capable of ringing the phone even when it's off the hook?
Mr. Ringo---as an agnostic, do you still leave a line of communication open should God ever decide to call you?
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ringo writes:
"It is said" by humans - who are no more likely to be right than I am.
Of course. God could force everyone to acknowledge His presence but it is said that the Spirit is a perfect gentleman. Phat writes:
You can ask yourself that same question: Is the phone ringing or is it all in your head?
Perhaps the bigger question is whether or not you would recognize the ringtone when He did call you.
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I would suggest that people who claim to understand God often seem to understand less than the av-er-age bear.
Are you suggesting that the closer we are to claiming to understand GOD, the less it makes GOD out to be?
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
quote:Claiming to understand God or to commune with God is pretty much like idolatry.
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
From a moral standpoint, I don't think that's true. Technology has made the body count higher but people seem to feel worse about doing it. For example, we don't butcher prisoners wholesale like the Old Testament prescribes; we consider it a war crime.
Modern warfare is more horrific and attrocious than anything in Pauls day. Phat writes:
Name a time in history when it hasn't been true.
quote: Can anyone argue that this does not describe the life on the streets in any large modern city?
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
They also repudiate Jesus to this day.
The Messiah was known to the Jews through prophecy throughout their history, they never heard of Mohammed or Allah and repudiate them to this day.
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
To be clear, the Satan in the Bible is like the Big Bad Wolf in those other fairy tales. The Big Bad Wolf who tried to eat Little Red Riding Hood was not the same Big Bad Wolf as the one who tried to eat the Three Pigs. After all, they both got killed. Ringo goes so far as to suggest that satan was given a bad rap. After all, according to some hypothetical stuff that humans made up, Lucifer started a war in heaven. Got beat down and sent to earth. Showed up as a talking snake. Similarly, the Satan who tested Job was not necessarily the same Satan as the one who tempted Jesus. In another story, Satan's role was given to a snake (apparently it was the regular Satan's day of rest). Satan is a plot device, not an entity. He represents the bad side of us. Interactions with him represent the conflicts within us. There was no historical "war in heaven". There is only a perpetual conflict within us between our good impulses and our bad impulses.
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Metaphorically, yes. Historically, no.
Metaphorically, the lives lived and the characters were actual people. Phat writes:
Using Satan as an explanation for Hitler is just hypocritical. Hitler was an example of what our own evil side can accomplish. Hitler's minions were ordinary people just like you and me. If you want to learn anything from history, the first thing you have to do is throw away excuses like Satan.
Once you explain Adolf Hitler, or Andrew Jackson, the massacre of innocents, satan becomes more than a plot device.
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It's neither a right nor an ability; it's a responsibility.
... you critics wish to construct a scenario whereby you perpetually have the right and ability to deny gods (potential) omnipotence or all knowings. Phat writes:
Again, it has nothing to do with "submitting to a higher power". Whether there is a higher power or not, whether there is a tempter or not, we are responsible for our own actions.
... the real battle is in our minds...whether we will submit to a higher power or whether we ourselves insist on the responsibility and consequence of being our own power.
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Is he alive in the sense of a bacterium or alive in the sense of a virus? Or maybe he's alive in the sense that English is a living language, as opposed to Latin which is a more-or-less dead language?
I believe that Jesus is alive today.
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
That's a tautology: He's alive in the sense that He's alive. Is he biologically alive?
He's alive in the sense that He is actually alive and sitting at the right hand of the Father in heaven; Faith writes:
The same could be said of Shakespeare.
and He's alive in the sense that sometimes we are blessed enough to experience His presence and to receive both indirect and direct communications from Him.
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ringo Member (Idle past 296 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't think that's true. In your experience, Jesus may be the one who seems "most alive".
The same could be said of anyone...but most often is said about jesus. Phat writes:
I hope so. Being too sure of yourself - especially about things that can not be verified - is a dangerous thing.
Are that many people unsure about what they feel or experience?
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