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ChristianJuggalo  Suspended Member (Idle past 5852 days) Posts: 56 From: United States Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Could the universe have been created for no reason? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
fallacycop Member (Idle past 5521 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
why I never get a straight forward answer when I ask someone who doesn't believe in a creator, how has the universe always been here? They always say, "it just has" Thats because this isn't a fair question, and you shouldn't be asking it to begin with. How would you answer the question quote:Do you have a better answer then quote:?
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fallacycop Member (Idle past 5521 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
Again, any got a link to information on the Big Bang? google it.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
I just wanted to get the atheists views of it. That's fine. It's just that when Christians come onto this site asking those questions, 9 times out of 10 they are thinking that they've managed to disprove atheism and modern cosmology once and for all (and they rarely even care about what atheists views really are -- in fact, they are convinced that they already know all there is to know about atheists). So when someone comes around asking these very same questions, we kind of just assume she is one of those types. But if you are really curious about what atheists think, you're going to have to ask each and every atheist -- an atheist is just someone who believes that no gods exist. Other than that, there is no standard dogma, and a lot of people have different views on different things. This is especially true about cosmology and Big Bang, which your typical atheist doesn't understand any better than your typical Christian. So, for this particular atheist's views: I don't know how the universe began. I don't even think the question makes sense -- I don't believe anyone has really constructed the concepts necessary to even discuss this rationally. I just say that the universe simply exists, mostly because I can't conceive of any other alternative. If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey. Haven't you always wanted a monkey? -- The Barenaked Ladies
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Taz Member (Idle past 3292 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Chiroptera writes:
I'd dispute you with this point. An atheist is someone who does not believe in god(s). It is the absence of belief that is the central core of atheism. an atheist is just someone who believes that no gods exist. In fact, I would even dispute the need for the word "atheist". Do we have a word to describe those who are not lawyers? Do we have a word to describe those who are not philosophers? Do we have a word to describe those who do not believe in UFOs as alien spacecrafts? Why do we have a word to describe those who do not believe in god(s). Atheists do not say that there is/are no god/gods. It's just that we lack the belief or the need in it/them.
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Michael Member (Idle past 4638 days) Posts: 199 From: USA Joined: |
Taz writes: In fact, I would even dispute the need for the word "atheist". Do we have a word to describe those who are not lawyers? Do we have a word to describe those who are not philosophers? Do we have a word to describe those who do not believe in UFOs as alien spacecrafts? Why do we have a word to describe those who do not believe in god(s). If the majority of people in the world were lawyers we'd probably need a word for non-lawyers. If the majority of people in the world were philosophers we'd probably need a word for non-philosophers. If the majority of people in the world believed that UFOs were alien spacecraft we'd probably need a word for people less credulous. It seems that the majority of people in the world have a belief in an invisible friend/disciplinarian; I think we need a word for those of us who are skeptical. "Atheist" serves that purpose well. Cheers.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
If the majority of people in the world were lawyers we'd probably need a word for non-lawyers. We do have a word for non-lawyers, and, in fact, you (and I) just used it. If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey. Haven't you always wanted a monkey? -- The Barenaked Ladies
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Michael Member (Idle past 4638 days) Posts: 199 From: USA Joined: |
Chiroptera writes: We do have a word for non-lawyers, and, in fact, you (and I) just used it. And look how closely that word resembles the word "atheist." I don't understand the objection by some atheists to the "A" word. Cheers.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
I'd dispute you with this point. Well, you can dispute all you want. Basically, the meaning of a word is how people actually use it. When I use the word, I mean someone who does not believe that a god exists. I could be wrong, but I think that is what CJ means when he is using the word. In fact, it is what the word means whenever it has been used by anyone with whom I have discussed atheism. So we all understand what the other is saying; we are communicating effectively. The word is doing exactly what it is supposed to do -- it is facilitating communication. If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey. Haven't you always wanted a monkey? -- The Barenaked Ladies
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ChristianJuggalo  Suspended Member (Idle past 5852 days) Posts: 56 From: United States Joined: |
Sure, fallacycop. If it makes you feel better I will. But how could a word get to your nervs? A word is intangible, so exactly how could it get to your nervs? "There", is that better?
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17 If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?
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Taz Member (Idle past 3292 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Well, then I guess I beg to differ with merriam-webster.
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ChristianJuggalo  Suspended Member (Idle past 5852 days) Posts: 56 From: United States Joined: |
Good for you Taz, you go and do that.
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17 If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?
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fallacycop Member (Idle past 5521 days) Posts: 692 From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil Joined: |
Much better, thank you
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.0 |
Hi CJ,
If I might throw in my two cents woth; if you don't believe that there is a God, then do you believe there doesn't need to be a reason for existence? That is exactly what I believe. There may be a reason for existence for all I know. I just don't think that it is a given; we might well live in a universe entirely devoid of intrinsic meaning, indeed, it seems to me that we live in just such a meaningless universe.It is important to note however, that I do not consider our lives to be meaningless. Without intelligent beings to marvel at it, the universe would be meaningless. It is our instinct to create meaning that makes existence meaningful. This is an active process; we must create meaning for ourselves, in the way we live our lives. No outside agency or deity is going to step in and give us purpose, whether we believe in one or not. I don't feel discomfort. I believe God created the universe Well I don't and I don't feel any discomfort either.
(Atheists) say they don't know why or how (and that's fine with me) they just say it has been here. Well, people ask me how can you believe in God and that he created everything without any proof. I would say, I just believe and that I have faith. To me they are pretty similar. I disagree. You believe that God made the universe. Science doesn't say that you are wrong, it simply says "We do not currently know what, if anything, caused the universe to come into existence."You are placing your faith in a particular explanation, namely God. Science remains silent, until equipped with evidence upon which an explanation might be based. Even then, no explanation is ever treated as "gospel". Every scientific theory is subject to constant examination, pending better explanations. Good scientists do not have "faith" in their theories, in quite the way that you mean it. Rather, they have a tentative confidence that they have provided the best explanation of current observations. Belief in the absence of evidence is not logical or sensible. It is merely wishful thinking. The most that can be said of God as the initiator of the Big Bang, is that we have "no need for that hypothesis". I have not been around many atheists Maybe you have and they're just not telling...Seriously, as Chiroptera has noted, atheists come in all shades of opinion. Ask ten atheists a question and you'll probably get eleven different answers. It's good that you want to understand other people's opinions though. Hopefully, that's a big part of why we're all here. Mutate and Survive
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