Could the universe have been created for no reason?

Hey "dwise1' I'm not "self-centered", I actually do think about other people. I give donations to charities when I can, and I help people with their problems.Also, I do not avoid being truthfull. I am as truthfull as I can be. I think you are generalizing christians as a whole. I do have morals and I do try to do what's right.

To those who know who you are: Let's quit with the wise-ass comments.To ChristianJuggalo: While you don't have to accept current cosmological theory, there are some here at this forum who understand cosmology very well. There is an opportunity here to gain a much better understanding of things like the Big Bang and the expansion of the universe then you had when you started. It doesn't hurt to learn what the theories actually say.To everyone: This thread is actually going very well for one tearing along at breakneck speed. Congrats to all!

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

Actually, I will read the inforamtion on the "Big Bang" with an open mind. Who are you to tell me what I will do. You don't think I will therefore you say I won't just to make yourself feel better.

If we could nip this sub-discussion here that'd be nice.

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--	Percy
	EvC Forum Director

I'm done with this thread. All I have is an ignorant atheist named "Taz" hassling me. Well "Taz", I hope the best for you and I hope that you quit acting like a fuckin smart ass. (I'll ask for forgivness later)

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"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?

That is demonstrably false.Other have posted trying to help you, including myself.But of course, you will see what you want to see.

Sorry for getting off subject.One more thing. I know that people were trying to help me. I just got side tracked by a moron. But, I have more important stuff to do now, I'll talk some other time.

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"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?

Your statement to which I was responding demonstrated otherwise.BTW, there's no need to put one's moniker in quotation marks. Unless your intent was ridicule. If that was your intent, then I would suggest that you simply ask me about my moniker. If you instead don't ask and simply proceed thinking what you're obviously already thinking, then I can assure you that you are dead wrong. I would hope so. Bear in mind that that would include not projecting your own beliefs onto them. Such projection is yet another demonstration of being self-centered. I was relating my repeated experience with creationists for over 20 years. There have been a few, very few exceptions, but the vast majority of those creationists have conducted themselves exactly as I described.I have also met and been friends with many other Christians, most of whom do not follow the "creation science" path. Good and bad among them, just as is found in all groups regardless of religious beliefs.If you do have morals, then do please practice them. And be as truthful as you can be. But please stop your self-centered projections that lead you to claim that nobody else is moral nor truthful. Understand that you do not have any monopoly on morality. Taz is just speaking from hard-earned experience. Your conduct fits the pattern of far too many others he has -- we have -- encountered repeatedly for far too long. Others who have promised to seek information with an open mind and who had then done all they could to not honor that promise. It's the old "duck theorem" in action.The ball is in your court to prove him wrong. Will you?Edited by dwise1, : No reason given.

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{When you search for God, y}ou can't go to the people who believe already. They've made up their minds and want to convince you of their own personal heresy.
("The Jehovah Contract", AKA "Der Jehova-Vertrag", by Viktor Koman, 1984)Humans wrote the Bible; God wrote the world.
(from filk song "Word of God" by Dr. Catherine Faber, No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.echoschildren.org/CDlyrics/WORDGOD.HTML)Of course, if Dr. Mortimer's surmise should be correct and we are dealing with forces outside the ordinary laws of Nature, there is an end of our investigation. But we are bound to exhaust all other hypotheses before falling back upon this one.
(Sherlock Holmes in The Hound of the Baskervilles)Gentry's case depends upon his halos remaining a mystery. Once a naturalistic explanation is discovered, his claim of a supernatural origin is washed up. So he will not give aid or support to suggestions that might resolve the mystery. Science works toward an increase in knowledge; creationism depends upon a lack of it. Science promotes the open-ended search; creationism supports giving up and looking no further. It is clear which method Gentry advocates.
("Gentry's Tiny Mystery -- Unsupported by Geology" by J. Richard Wakefield, Creation/Evolution Issue XXII, Winter 1987-1988, pp 31-32)

Last post today. Honest to God.I am not here to prove anyone wrong or right. Just here to have some questions answered. It will take a while for me to understand the Big Bang Theory only because, I'm not too smart when it comes to science.You're right, I will be as truthful as I can be and not judge eveyone else like they aren't (even though I don't think I was doing that) Also, I do practice my morals, I am still young and have a lot to learn, so excuse me if I'm not up to par with the rest.For the whole " " thing. I didn't mean to ridicule.I do understand where you are coming from with the Christians you speak of. I have met some hokey ones myself.Anyway, I'll gather as much information I can and then debate. I'm just a hot-head sometimes and I rush into things.

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"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?

I found that taking a deep breath and pausing-before-posting was a good way to prevent myself having to ask for peoples forgiveness later.

May I ask a question? Why isn't this enough? I mean, I can understand being curious about the origin of the universe, but why should the inability to answer the question be a source of discomfort?I can't even make sense of the question, "How did the universe begin?" So I just accept that it does.

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If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a monkey.
Haven't you always wanted a monkey?
-- The Barenaked Ladies

I think, either curiosity begets discomfort, or discomfort begets curiosity (or both, just to be nice and tautological about it). It's actually a fairly scientific attitude, of you think about it: aren't we all (scientists) motivated by a desire to learn what hasn't been learned yet?I guess we (scientists again) have to accept that any conclusions we come to are at least somewhat tentative, and many of us have learned to deal with that uncertainty (I don't think I'm there yet). But, the religious mindset is not geared toward accepting uncertainty as the rule. Thus, there must be a purpose to life, or we wouldn't be living it.The difficulty we (theists) get into comes when we try to take this a step further and actually spell out the purpose of life. A lot of theists disagree about this, but all still feel secure in their "knowledge" about the inner workings of the universe.It's interesting to me that the religious mindset is the one most obsessed with finding all the "true" answers, but that the conclusions we come to by this method turn out to be the most inconclusive, unsettling, contradictory and, often, bogus conclusions out there. Note: I say this as a religious man, myself.Life is full of uncertainty (as this thread proves very well): get used to it. That's what separates the men from the boys. Edited by Bluejay, : Added paragraph.Edited by Bluejay, : Grammar.

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Signed,
Nobody Important (just Bluejay)

Just to clear everything up for you guys. I should have took more time to make my posts.I should have said, if you don't believe that there is a God, then do you believe there doesn't need to be a reason for existence? If you believe that, then it's fine with me."May I ask a question? Why isn't this enough? I mean, I can understand being curious about the origin of the universe, but why should the inability to answer the question be a source of discomfort?"Well, I don't feel discomfort. I believe God created the universe. I just want to know what atheists think about the situation. They say they don't know why or how (and that's fine with me) they just say it has been here. Well, people ask me how can you believe in God and that he created everything without any proof. I would say, I just believe and that I have faith. To me they are pretty similar.Atheists don't know how or why the universe is here, they just accept that it is. (I'm not against that)I believe that God created the universe based on my faith. No I don't know how God created it, I just accept that he did.I just wanted to get the atheists views of it.Don't get me wrong, I like to be amazed at things I can't prove or understand.I didn't make this post to judge atheists, I just want to understand them better. I have not been around many atheists (because my mom's family are Christians and my dad's family are Christians)

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"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved"- John 3:17If God didn't create the universe, then how did it just get here?

Could you please stop spelling 'their is' and spell it correctly? (There is). Its getting to my nervs

The word why implies purpose. If the universe has no purpose, your why questions make no sense. May be a how question like "How did the universe create life" would be more consistent since, whenever asking questions about other people's points of view, you must (if even for just a second) take their point of view.