Satan and prayer

I don't know the age, and am inclined to believe it is old like they say it is, but my opinion isn't knowledge-based, and therefore worth spit. Evolution? Ahhhh, now my answer to that will be pondered for centuries.

Just an FYI: One of the flight 93 passengers who tried to storm the cockpit was Mark Kendall Bingham, a gay rugby player from San Francisco. I love hearing Christian groups and individuals speak of the heroic flight 93 passengers as if they were all fundamentalist christians like themselves, and then rail against homosexuality (not that you have done so, but this is just an in-general observation).How do *you* know what god the passengers that stormed the cockpit worshipped? Even if Christian they all have the same concept of God (a "personal" god, a general universal spirit, divinity of Christ, divinity of Mary, the mormon system, etc)? How can you possibly generalize like this? It's not like the hijackers took out a bus carrying people to a Christian Coalition event.

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"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Well,Tell you what.I won't demand proof. ALl I will demand is any kind of objective evidence what so ever of a supernatural being. It could be Satan, it coudl be God, your choice. Show me howthis evidence points to a being rather than natural causes.Then, after you do that, you can declare me wrong, unless I show that your evidnece is no such thing, but wishful thinking, logical fallacies and such.So, since my statement that there is no demonstrated Satan or God, all
you have to do to prove me wrong is demonstrate Satan or God.
Where is the objective evidence, that isn't based on wishful thinking or logical fallacies.This message has been edited by ramoss, 09-13-2004 04:06 PMThis message has been edited by ramoss, 09-13-2004 04:14 PMThis message has been edited by ramoss, 09-13-2004 04:17 PM

Sure!Since you won't prove that there is not, I will have to prove there is.Every single thing in life can be related to good, or bad.
Show me a concept, or decision that doesn't relate to either good or bad. You must use this concept in context.This is overwhelming evidence of God vs. Satan.So go ahead, show me one thought that cannot relate to this.

Do you remember this topic from long ago, Rat?

Really?WHere is this evidence? For 4 years, I have been waiting to see any objective evidence of any supernatural being, and all I get from you is unsupported assertions. I don't see any evidence that Satan in more than an imaginary enemy, something that schizophrenics clutch to when they hear voices in their head, or the bad the man does all on his own.Good and bad are man made concepts, nothing more, and it very subjective. The fact man see Good and bad in relations to himself
does not mean a supernatural entity exists

It may seem as if I am replying to Ramoss because his questions and statements are very pointed, but I am proposing that people read my work and discover with me a new theory of evolution. This theory of evolution involves evolving kingdoms and involving kingdoms. Angels are involving kingdoms and travel the cycle of life in a reverse direction to the evolving kingdoms. Evolving kingdoms have free will. Involving kingdoms operate and grow by obedience. The two kingdoms need each other in the sense that when the evolving animals are ascended off the earth during the 1-3rd human races (a correspondence to the 5-7th animal races), a mass extinction occurs only what scientists have still not discovered is that when the evolving lives leave the forms, involving (angel) lives go into the forms.A group of angels might actually accompany the human kingdom, working with us to provide us with an environment that is virtually above what the evolving kingdoms are working at. In this way the entire array of life in lower kingdoms is present with us, whereas the evolving lives are only half-way through their process due to this being the 4th round (a midpoint in the 7 necessary).The angels operating under a different set of laws need understanding and encouragement. They need to make a statement about obedience and how instrumental it is for the growth of the angelic side of us. We only see Eve (and Adam by default) as disobedient (Adam obeyed Eve.) The devil we hear has fallen. We hear he was disobedient, but we don't see it for ourselves (in the story.)During the 4th race of humans, we are in place on earth without the accompanying "evolving" animals for they have all been ascended and sent on their journey. When we are without them, we no longer have the luxury of placing blame for wrongdoing on their influence. We have to accept that wrongdoing is due to our own failings rather than the animal's presence in us. When we continue into the 5th through 7th races, we not only see ourselves as doing wrong, but because the girasas (a higher kingdom for which my work can be found on the internet by searching that term), are present with us, we become the kingdom "under blame" for all errors. The angels are instrumental in turning us to the "lower position" and the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden is a story about the beginning of the 5th human race. We may find ourselves being obedient to an angel rather than to God, but it is a tricky situation in which obedience is not even our growthpoint. We grow by free will even when the girasas kingdom is here to help us. When we open up to them, we have a better chance of making the right decision, but we will never join the angelic kingdoms and they will never join our evolving side of life. (with exception).I do ask God to make Satan obedient and thank him for showing me the error of my ways (in not discovering life on my own - completely independent of an offering from the angel side). I ask God to keep me separate, but appreciative of the work the angels are able to do because the ones that travel with us and the ones that the girasas kingdom is bringing with them are all glorious in their proper positions. It is only when they become coerced into evolving that they may have difficulty (likewise when we are coerced into obedience hence involving).Keep everything in its rightful place and learn to distinguish who is giving commands to whom. It should always be evolving lives that command involving lives and when we receive messages from angels, we should take them to heart because they are messengers that have very important roles.Please feel free to read my webpage.Brenda Tucker

Hi Brenda, welcome to EvC.You have some interesting ideas there: what lead you to conclude such?

Hi Larni,I've been writing for quite sometime about the idea which came to me all of a sudden when I was sitting in an "I AM" Temple class in Pasadena, looking at a picture of Archangel Michael. Before that time, I studied at The Theosophical Society quite extensively after dropping out of a psychology degree program at University of Illinois. (Which degree I did eventually complete in 1984.)I dropped out of school when I was 19, in 1974. Reading theosophy totally blew my mind because it had been so totally excluded from academics. Most of what I write is found in theosophical books, but my webpage gives Saint Germain Foundation as a reference too.I really hope to revive interest in theosophy from an academic standpoint and I feel that pointing to H.P.B. as author of THE SECRET DOCTRINE, which contains a dynamic theory of evolution, is the fastest way to achieve this.By searching on "girasas" or by reading a bit on the other forum discussion topic under "Faith and Belief" the origin of my viewpoint may come together. Thanks for asking.