My Christian Theism gets Personal!

Hi Stephen,I agree religon doesn't guarantee to save us, but I believe by believing and living in Jesus does.

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I count myself as a disciple of Yeshua, often called Jesus. I refuse the label Christian ("of Christ") because it is specifically forbidden in scripture (1 Corinth 1:12).

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Do you mean because of that passage saying "I of Christ", it is forbidden to say I'm a Christian?
(1 Corinth 1:12)
"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."
I think what he means here is not to make group of it, because we are one in Jesus Christ.

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Actually, in one conversation with God, He told me not to even pray for Christians, because going to a Christian church was a "sin unto death."

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I know some Christian preachers tell their people that other churches are wrong or things like that.. yes, I agree maybe it is forbidden in the scripture. But I don't think that going to church is a "sin unto death".. we Christians try to know His words by going to churches. But it's still about Jesus. Is that a sin?
If a church tell their people to do things contradict to the Bible and tell to believe others besides Jesus then going to that church could be a sin to death.
Could you tell me what are sins unto death?The churches are made because of Jesus came to earth, then it could mean that Jesus made us to do "sin unto death". Can God make mistake? (Because you also said God doesn't know the outcome for sure). Are you saying that God made mistake by sending Jesus to earth.. which later made people to do sin unto death? I don't understand.Could you also tell me the requirments to be saved?
Thank you Stephen.[This message has been edited by Chris, 03-19-2004]

Chris,You assert, But what does this actually mean? To you? To God? How are you to know that this is true of you? He says not to say it. Because death and life are in the power of the tongue, and by your words you are saved, or condemned. When you say it, you do make a group of it. He tells us to call on His name, and that by "no other name, but the name of Yeshua" are we saved.What I have learned, believing and living in Yeshua, is that anything that comes out of my mouth, or pen, after "I think..." is going to need drastic repentance, changing of the mind. I didn't think so either, and when God told me this was the case, I asked for major confirmation. Which He has, over the course of 12 years, given me. I don't think it has always been so, of course, and also of course, there are some people in "church" gatherings who have salvation, by grace. But, the "house church" movements, now and throughout history, have given people choices, to worship as a true family, in the place where the family lives, or to worship as "make-believe" family, in a place set aside for this illusion.The key here is to alert you and others to an idea, that you must take to the Lord in listening prayer, to hear what He says. His sheep hearken to His voice, know His voice. If you cannot ask Him, and get Him to speak to you about it, you know that you are not saved. Yet. If you are a church goer, or are committing any "sin unto death," He reluctantly hears my prayers for your salvation, but He will welcome your own prayers for salvation. Hypocrisy, or being a conscious liar. Not forgiving others. Refusing hospitality to "the least of those His brethren." Saying that you know the Lord, but not "keeping His commandments." Not being giving enough to go substantially beyond tithing. Not repenting. Here's what He told me. In any identifiable geographic locale, Yeshua will build His church, naming it with His name, and the name of the locale. "The church of Yeshua Messiah in Lawrence." Or, "the church of Iasous Christ in Winchester." Satan immediately plants His seed in that locale, seeds of tares, which get gathered together in other Churches, counterfeits of the real thing. These have other names, but normally do not include, or add to, the name of Yeshua. The righteous are warned about this process, and warned to avoid the bundles of tare, which are destined for the fire. Others seeking some sort of spiritual life, as at the beginning, have a choice between the tree of life (a house gathering, calling itself by the name of Yeshua), and a Church, some building and Institutional Program (the tree of knowledge of good and evil is manifested today in institutions of all sorts: schools, governments, Churches, etc.) As always, they have a choice, between life, being born again into a family, giving up--hating--their past life, and clinging to all their stuff while "going to church." Death, in other words.I'll tell you what I heard God say about salvation a bit later.Stephen

Chris,Now, about the requirements to be saved.There are many ways to express this, all saying the same thing different ways. This is possible because, to be saved means that one is on a path, in a process, headed in a certain direction. On that path are many sign-posts that one must pass, any one of which might be thought of as a requirement to be saved.But the best overall description of that pathway is called repentance, or changing one's mind, where change is exhaustive, as in being born again, or renewed in one's thinking. Normally, as much as possible, this means choosing a life, called discipleship, where one lives in the company of someone who is committed to teaching you ways to change your mind. One gets baptized into various sets of rules that structure this learning process, rules that one can plan on studying forever. This is known as being baptized in (committed to) the name or rules of the Father (the law and the prophets), the Son, (His 140 or so imperative voice commandments), and the Holy Spirit, (the many directives in the scriptures that are based on the Holy Spirit, plus what the Spirit orders day by day.) Actually learning the commandments of Yeshua is the curricular structure around which one fulfills these baptismal commitments. The state of discipleship normally means moving in with whoever is teaching you. You know that you are saved because you hear God telling you that you are His child. "He walks with me, and He talks with me, and He tells me I am His own." From hearing this message, faith comes, through which you have salvation. Most of us hear this at first in the voice of the one discipling us, who we know is speaking for God, as confirmed by their testimony of Yeshua walking in the flesh, and shedding His blood to purchase us. They watch over our souls as one who has to give an account, and in that work, ask God where we are. Then they tell us what they heard from God. Obviously, if our leaders hear God tell them that we are lost, they will call us again to repentance. If they hear God tell that we are saved, they will reassure us.We are commanded by the Spirit to be "very diligent" to be sure of our election and calling. Our signs of eternal life are thus,1. We are comforted by the fact that we are learning, and not by what we "know."2. We are told, daily, that we are saved, either by God Himself, or by His spokesmen in our life.3. We consider ourselves disciples of Yeshua, living and walking covanentally with His current incarnation, His body or church, as that body teaches us His commandments.4. Our main goals in life are to hear His voice, and to learn by heart to keep the 140 or so commandments that He left with His first disciples/apostles to teach us.5. We are clean, and cleansed daily, of institutional influences and other bad company. Beware the leaven of the Christian Churchmen.6. We know many scriptural laws, and commandments, none of which do we obey by the letter, but all of which guide us in walking in the Spirit. Our acts of repenting, rejoicing, letting our light shine, Sabbath keeping, whatever, are different every time we set out to obey.Anyone not meeting these requirements must do this. They must go to someone they know personally, that they respect above most or all others, and ask them to teach them the rules for knowing the truth. If that person doesn't know, beseech them to go learn, and bring back what they learn to you. Say, "I choose life." Pray for God, calling on His name--using His name, Jehovah, Yeshua--to choose you. Open the Bible, find an imperative voice command, and ask God to speak to you about how to obey. Fast, give, walk. Do all of this, in the order given, with all your might. The Holy Spirit will save.Remember, He wants you and all men saved more than you or any of us. If we do our best, going for His family life, rejecting institutional ways, He will meet us more than half-way.Just don't ever do anything spiritual with anyone, that doesn't happen entirely within your family life. Going to Church is deadly. "None who go to her return, Nor do they regain the paths of life."Stephen