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Author Topic:   My mind's in a knot... (Re: Who/what created God?)
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 151 of 156 (494555)
01-16-2009 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by cavediver
01-16-2009 7:19 PM


Re: Adding too many layers onto an already obfuscated reality
For most of it I thought you were doing very well - interestingly, your typical line of "I'm not sure that's right - isn't it more like this..." would tend to be very close to the mark, where-as your more definite statements/proclamations tended to be more bullshit inspired If I believed my own crap, I might suggest that your tentativity brings out better thought and understanding
Thanks for the vote of confidence . I will try to retain my previous attitude of humble critical anaylsis vice unwavering certitude.
I agree whole-heartedly. Though, I think this not only applies to us layman, but also applies to the rest of the scientific community as well. I think when anyone of us claim to hold a position of untenability, of being above skeptism and critical analysis (whether a layman speaking out his/her ass or a scientist unwavingly upholding a position in which he/she is clearly errent), than we doom ourselves to a great fall and will enevitably be forced to eat a slice of humble pie.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by cavediver, posted 01-16-2009 7:19 PM cavediver has not replied

  
mindquaker
Junior Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 4
Joined: 01-11-2009


Message 152 of 156 (494656)
01-17-2009 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Straggler
04-13-2008 6:07 PM


Re: supremacy
a creation is limited, it does not in a way exists beyond the creator' limits, its a subset not equal to the true set, we humans created supermonsters- computers but they are not in a way superior than us, from memory to accueacy. with available resources i can not create anything better than i. it will always be a lesser model. we are lesser models we cannot go beyond to question the creator of God.He is the one in a better position to ponder on that, but because he tells across religion that he is the self existent, we may just flow with that. and that may logicaly make sense because with events there is no infinite regression.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Straggler, posted 04-13-2008 6:07 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by fallacycop, posted 01-18-2009 2:40 AM mindquaker has replied

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 153 of 156 (494722)
01-18-2009 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by mindquaker
01-17-2009 2:16 PM


Re: supremacy
a creation is limited, it does not in a way exists beyond the creator' limits, its a subset not equal to the true set, we humans created supermonsters- computers but they are not in a way superior than us, from memory to accueacy.
That's factually incorrect. Computers can do many tasks better then their creators. That's why we created and use them.
with available resources i can not create anything better than i.
I do not doubt that.
it will always be a lesser model. we are lesser models we cannot go beyond to question the creator of God.He is the one in a better position to ponder on that, but because he tells across religion that he is the self existent, we may just flow with that.
That would be the case if we had any good reason to actually believe that god is speaking to us. Religions are man made institutions.
and that may logicaly make sense because with events there is no infinite regression.
Hard to get any meaning out of that one.
Edited by fallacycop, : fix quote box

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by mindquaker, posted 01-17-2009 2:16 PM mindquaker has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by mindquaker, posted 01-18-2009 7:11 AM fallacycop has replied

  
mindquaker
Junior Member (Idle past 5548 days)
Posts: 4
Joined: 01-11-2009


Message 154 of 156 (494734)
01-18-2009 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by fallacycop
01-18-2009 2:40 AM


Re: supremacy
f you had no doubt that with what i have i cannot produce anything better than i then, i wonder why yet again you still believe that computers are better than us, we created them their limits are within ours. mind one average brain has acapacity of storing all information that has ever been incepted on earth and remain three quater empty.
" that would be the case if we had any good reason to believe that god is speaking to us. religion are all man made institutions".
you never understood, and you will never fool me, take your time! start with analysis, then disect, and make sense out of your disections, make ur argument, revise it then post it.
supremacy exist out of our space and time dimensions its not bound to physical laws of our universe(1), if we assume its our originator then we have no chance of figuring out what created it, we cant get into its mind just like as computers has no access top our thoughts. fallacycop you need training.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by fallacycop, posted 01-18-2009 2:40 AM fallacycop has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 01-18-2009 8:35 AM mindquaker has not replied
 Message 156 by fallacycop, posted 01-18-2009 11:47 PM mindquaker has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 155 of 156 (494744)
01-18-2009 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by mindquaker
01-18-2009 7:11 AM


Re: supremacy
f you had no doubt that with what i have i cannot produce anything better than i then, i wonder why yet again you still believe that computers are better than us,
What do you mean by "better"?
Computers collectively can hold more memory than the human brain.
The average human brain has over 100 trillion synapses and is estimated that it can hold up to about 100 million megabytes (100,000,000,000,000,000 bytes) of data. The San Diego Supercomputer Center (SDSC) can store 25 petabytes or 25 billion megabytes of accessible data which is 250 times that of a single human brain. "For reference, the digital equivalent of all the printed materials in the Library of Congress is about 20,000 gigabytes; this represents less than 0.1 percent of our capacity," Richard Moore, director of Production Systems of SDSC says in this article: Supercomputer Center Boosts Storage Capacity To Mind-Boggling Numbers
Computers can process single calculations "faster" and more accurately than our brains, not due necessarily just to raw speed but do to efficiency and the way that the brain vs computers processes and outputs data (computers are used for specific purposes, the brain is considered a "general" computer and thus does not devote all its effort to a single calculation but to a whole slew of processes i.e. all the sense, emotion, cognition thought, etc). Computers (specifically super computers and computer grids) are approaching the point where they can perform parallel tasks at the same rate or better than the human brain. The fastest supercomputer in the world is Los Alamos National Laboratory's Roadrunner supercomputer which process information at 1.44 quadrillion (1,144,000,000,000,000) calculations per second (petraflops), and is being used to mimic extremely complex neurological processes as shown here. High end estimated speed of calculation for the human brain is approximately 100 petraflops (though some low end estimates are as low as 100 teraflops which supercomputers have already surpassed). So it looks like we are rapidly closing the distance between the processing power of the computer and the human brain if not already passed it. Another supercomputer being developed by IBM is called BlueBrain and simulates the neocortical column of a rat, which contains around 10,000 neurons.
Also, if we can produce a fully functioning quantum computer than it is quite possible that it would surpass the human brain in most likely all or nearly all capacities.
However the human brain does win out in adaptability. That is the brain since it is such a generalized biological "computer" can adapt to just about any type of situation or environment. It also can learn from trial and error which man-made computers can only do if specifically programmed and even this is very limited. Our human brain has nearly a billion year head start over the man-made "computer" however this gap is rapidly closing.
The computer has beaten the top chess champion of the world but can't even tie its own shoes yet. Thus it really depends on the criteria you are using to judge superiority between the two.
we created them their limits are within ours. mind one average
It depends on how you define the term "limits". We can use computers to perform multidimensional calculations that our brains cannot even begin to visualize much less calculate. How is that for being stuck inside the "limits"?
mind one average brain has acapacity of storing all information that has ever been incepted on earth and remain three quater empty.
That is blatantly false, see above comments on the memory capacity of the human brain.
that would be the case if we had any good reason to believe that god is speaking to us. religion are all man made institutions
I don't see how you jumped to the conclusion of that this is a reason that God is speaking to us. I concur though with the statement that religion is a man made institution.
you never understood, and you will never fool me, take your time! start with analysis, then disect, and make sense out of your disections, make ur argument, revise it then post it.
Ok, stay fooled
supremacy exist out of our space and time dimensions its not bound to physical laws of our universe
What do you mean by supremacy?
(1), if we assume its our originator then we have no chance of figuring out what created it, we cant get into its mind just like as computers has no access top our thoughts.
So if an AI one day could ask you questions about yourself, their creator, would you recant this statement? BTW, AI is getting pretty close to fully passing the Turing Test of demonstrating self-recognized intelligence.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Dr. Carl Sagan

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by mindquaker, posted 01-18-2009 7:11 AM mindquaker has not replied

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 5521 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 156 of 156 (494817)
01-18-2009 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by mindquaker
01-18-2009 7:11 AM


Re: supremacy
you never understood, and you will never fool me, take your time! start with analysis, then disect, and make sense out of your disections, make ur argument, revise it then post it.
supremacy exist out of our space and time dimensions its not bound to physical laws of our universe(1), if we assume its our originator then we have no chance of figuring out what created it, we cant get into its mind just like as computers has no access top our thoughts. fallacycop you need training.
Oh no! Another crackpot...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by mindquaker, posted 01-18-2009 7:11 AM mindquaker has not replied

  
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