God is good and evil

I agree, I'm getting a little confused myself. That sounds good, I'll lay off your debate in this thread until it winds down in the other one; but I will continue to reply to compmage and anybody else.It might be a good idea to bring this to the Great Debate forum if it keeps going on, that way there wouldn't be so much crosstraffic.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

I can't know anything about Him, but I can believe things about Him through faith.I SAID:
Born2Preach writes:
It's all about faith not knowing, and through that faith you will eventually make a connection with Him, no matter what name you call Him by.YOU REPLIED: I did agree that you can't know anything about God, but you can believe on faith. I did say that and you quoted me on it, apparently there was a misunderstanding. If you need me to clarify that some more I'd be happy to.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

So you believe, based entirely on faith, in God. Not only that, but also, with no reason and for no reason whatsoever, you believe in just one god?

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Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in
this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely
conceives it, wants it, and loves it.
- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State, from The Columbian Dictionary of Quotations

Can't get nothin' past you, can I junior? But, not only through faith but because there have been personal experiences that have confirmed a divine presence. Anyone will tell you that you believe in God through faith. I said that several times and you FINALLY get it.That's it, from now on I refer to you as Crampy.Anyway, I believe in one God but I am open-minded that this could, infact, be a polytheistic reality. The Christian scriptures describe a trinity as does the Hindu religion. I believe because what I've felt and experienced.In short, I'm not going to pretend I base my belief on scientific evidence, but there's more than one kind of evidence out there. Don't close your mind to just one.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

Yes
Yes
YesNowhere. The Devil has always seemed to me to be a bit of an unecessary contradiction for precisely the above reason.Do I pass?

In reply to message 79...

quote:

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Born2Preach wrote: Anyway, I believe in one God but I am open-minded that this could, infact, be a polytheistic reality.

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It seems you are excluding an important other possibility, which is a universe without god, and without anything supernatural. Is that a distinct example of closed-mindedness?

quote:

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In short, I'm not going to pretend I base my belief on scientific evidence, but there's more than one kind of evidence out there. Don't close your mind to just one.

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"Different kinds" is rhetorical: evidence is judged by the manner in which it is perceived and analyzed. The "kind" of evidence you associate with your belief system is simply: that evidence whose analysis is a wholly internal, circular process. What is only required is a suggestion; as long as the parameters of what constitutes sufficient evidence are entirely confined to the unique experiences of individual believers, then quite simply, believers can easily come to trust in a false suggestion, without a relevant external reference to guide them to a sound verdict (ie. Is this evidence sufficient, or is it falsely suggestive?).So there aren't "different kinds", so much as there are different standards of verification. Yours (namely, that of any believer in the supernatural) are simply very poor standards. If you concede that much, then you approach a more honest expression of your [emphasis]private system.

quote:

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I believe because what I've felt and experienced.

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Why?[This message has been edited by atrejusan, 04-26-2004][This message has been edited by atrejusan, 04-26-2004]

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It knows only that it needs, commander. But, like so many of us, it does not know what.
- Spock

By no means is that an example of that; despite what it seemed to you I did not actually say I was excluding anything. Through knowledge I know that any of those possiblities are... well, possible.But what I believe through faith is that there is a supernatural. Now you're assuming that individual believers are lying to themselves; you seem to think we're all a bunch of simple-minded fools. If you're talking about external reference, though, the VAST majority of the world would say there is a supernatural, anyway. You're extremely arrogant if you call my standards poor without knowing me. Just because you limit yourself to one kind doesn't mean there are not others; weren't you just accusing me of being closed-minded?I said in the post you replied to that I believe in Christianity because of what I've felt and experienced. You reply: If you touch a burning hot stove then you'll believe that a burning hot stove is, infact, hot because of what you felt and experienced.
Same thing with me.Please try to not be so condecending when you debate.(150th post! I sure have learned a lot...)

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

This latest newbie seems to be the Atheistic version of Des'.An annoying newbie who should take heed of your post. I think s/he should get a warning or atleast read the rules.

I agree that atre should be warned before I have to start picking on the poor kid.I noticed that you were replying to his posts with about the same tone as mine; I thought about bringing it up to you but I guess you beat me to it.I think both of us should make a note to teach little grasshopper to play nice...

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

I suggest that atrejusan read my post here: http://EvC Forum: What makes you unbelieve Crash ?

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AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

Admin... I did not intend my language (such as claims of "arrogance" or "flawed") to imply insults. If I were addressing a stance of logic, the terms do not necessarily entail an emotional claim, or a personal affront.If I have specificed that I used the terms in the detached, impersonal manner, as I explained in my previous post (I'm not sure in which thread), is that sufficient?I'm looking to see where I've misunderstood things.

Ah.....The question I myself would love an answer to.
Perhaps the why is deeply seated in personal faith. Hence the Forum name Faith and Beliefs. A concept that Spock has never completely understood as faith is not based on logic. Why do some people have faith and beliefs and others do not? One answer given is that man is a neurotic ape. Another is we were created by an omnipotent/ benevolent being. Which do you believe atrejusan?? And welcome to Faith and Beliefs *edit typo..[This message has been edited by 1.61803, 04-26-2004]

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"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche

U sure do lolhey do u know nething bout Freemasonry or Co-Freemasonry?

I might be young by some standards but I would hardly call myself 'junior'. I thought I got it and then you introducing personal experiance. I really wish you would make up your mind. Why would you want to start calling me names? I can only think of two 'kinds' of evidence; good evidence and bad evidence. Scientific evidence would all into the former category. Not only that, be here you go talking about evidence again. What happened to belief based purely on faith?

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Freedom, morality, and the human dignity of the individual consists precisely in
this; that he does good not because he is forced to do so, but because he freely
conceives it, wants it, and loves it.
- Mikhail Bakunin, God and the State, from The Columbian Dictionary of Quotations

Silly Crampy is at it again: Okay, maybe I'm just doing a poor job of explaining things but I'll try again: If you have faith you BELIEVE, you don't KNOW. Belief doesn't really have evidence but personal experience such as prayer etc. can be kind of a confirmation, or psuedo-evidence if you will. It's not scientific evidence, so by an atheist's standard there is no evidence. Light bantering, I mean no offense by it.
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I said:"In short, I'm not going to pretend I base my belief on scientific evidence, but there's more than one kind of evidence out there. Don't close your mind to just one."
---------------------------------------You reply: I asked you to not close your mind to just one kind of evidence; this is exactly what I was talking about. You seem to assume when I say 'evidence' I mean exclusively scientific evidence. What you consider 'bad evidence' is a different kind but not an inferior or superior kind. It's considered arrogance to immediately dismiss evolution due to faith(which I don't do, by the way); while I agree with this consideration I also feel it is arrogance to dismiss beliefs that are not scientific just because they're not scientific.[This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 05-01-2004]

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.