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Author | Topic: Free will vs Omniscience | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
anglagard Member (Idle past 158 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined:
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My opening bid is $10 on jar, any takers? I am willing to go quite higher. The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing. If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do. Republican = death
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jar Member Posts: 33957 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 2.0 |
No Phat, you know that is not true and has absolutely nothing to do with anything I have said.
My Website: My Website
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jar Member Posts: 33957 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 2.0
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I actually have no idea what my IQ is but I did go to school with some really really smart folk and in our junior or senior year they snuck into the office at night and pulled the IQ files for all the kids in our class.
They have told me that my IQ was "scary" but whether it was scary high or scary low is unknown. My Website: My Website
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Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
So if you now were to ask me the questions you did earlier in this topic, my answers will have changed. Let me bring them up.
One could argue (if they wished to argue) that Lucifer was given the freedom to choose to rebel, but IF GOD created Lucifer with the ability to rebel and GOD foreknew that Lucifer would become satan, GOD is still responsible. You once argued that GOD is complete. Not merely Good, as I thought I believed. I never liked your theories, because I couldnt blame satan and I couldnt blame GOD for how my life turned out. Thus, you proved to have a good argument against Divine Foreknowledge. My only objection is that it puts limits on the God I was sold. Comments? "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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ringo Member Posts: 19784 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.8 |
What has that got to do with it? The point is that Adam and Eve did have the knowledge of good and evil and they supposedly passed it down to us - so we are well qualified to judge whether God is good or evil. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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jar Member Posts: 33957 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 2.0 |
You are still refusing to actually address the argument Phat.
Satan is irrelevant. Lucifer is irrelevant. Judgement is irrelevant. The issue is "the creation". If God has foreknowledge and creates a critter that is going to hell then that God is evil. Period. Full stop. It is impossible to have a God that has foreknowledge and is the creator of all that is, seen and unseen, if anything is ever condemned to hell. But remember, there is absolutely no reason that God should not be evil. My Website: My Website
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Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I just get mad when he continually calls me stupid and unwilling to learn.
For the sake of this argument, I will "throw God (as marketed to me) away", but it does take practice. dwise1 brought up the observation that many of the Biblical Creationists believed in a magical and thoroughly supernatural God and would abandon all rational thought in order to shoehorn their belief into education. In fact, as I browse the archives of our recent topics I see some comments that I never saw before.
quote:I just get mad when my points are so easily dismissed. dwise1 is much kinder to me. And i agree with Percy in that God uses all of you to challenge and sharpen my beliefs. (Or at the very least to force me to proofread my thoughts before repeating them a thousand times) Now...as to why I disagree with jar. I believe that in some of our discussions I am "working out my own salvation with fear and trembling"...not to mention an occasional bit of arrogance and hubris. But I honestly believe that Jesus was (and is) more than a man. I like the belief that God can be supernatural at times. If I were simply stuck with other humans and an uncertain future, I would feel vulnerable. My belief in God(or at least the God I "market") gives me a feeling of safety. Bernie Sanders, green new deals, and global consensus make me feel vulnerable and mortal. Edited by Phat, : fixed broken link "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 16107 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Right? "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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jar Member Posts: 33957 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 2.0 |
No Phat. Whom we will serve is irrelevant, immaterial, unimportant, silly, divisive, counter productive and worthless. The charge is "what will we do!" My Website: My Website
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ringo Member Posts: 19784 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 2.8 |
I don't know what any of that has to do with what I said but you're missing the biggest "if" of all - if He even exists. But again, you're missing the real point: It doesn't matter whether God is good or evil. We can't do anything about that. What matters is the good and/or evil that WE do. Of course, obeying evil commands from God would be evil. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Sarah Bellum Member Posts: 826 Joined: |
It all goes to show the scriptures weren't written by philosophers or logicians or scientists, they were written by people who just liked a good story.
“An artist is someone who can hold two opposing viewpoints and still remain fully functional.”
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