Free will vs Omniscience

But the Bible never tells anyone who God is beyond the single statement of the really pretty evil God who says "I am the Lord, thy god."You do know where that comes from and the god described in that story don't you? Most of that either has no meaning or is a major problem with the nonsense all of the Apologists market."Is Jesus God?" If Jesus is God the Trinity is false. And Jesus sits at God's right hand, a separate individual."Is GOD the Father of Jesus?" Not according to the Bible. The Nativity Story has Mary impregnated by an agent sent by God."Is Jesus eternally alive and in Heaven with GOD?' What does that even mean. You have never been able to explain what that means."Is the distinction of Jesus over other humans important, or do you believe that we all will be raised from the dead?" More word salad."Why must this God of yours save everybody without any effort on their part?" More simple misrepresentation of what I have said and again, totally irrelevant to the topic or ANY of the issues I've raised in this thread.Edited by jar, : n0 0 in ofEdited by jar, : fix sub-title

I notice that "the argument is wrong" doesn't figure in your list of excuses for not understanding it. Don't be silly. If God was evil, He couldn't be counted on to tell the truth, could He? He might tell us, like He told Adam and Eve, that we will die today (where "today" really, really, really means forty years from now). Good plan. If you did, you might get no answer at all or you might get an answer you don't want to hear. It's safer to keep your "communication" with God on a nice vague plane.

How would you go about serving God? How does He take His coffee? Does He prefer mustard or mayonnaise on His sandwich?As Jesus said elsewhere, you don't love God or serve God by mouthing, "Lord! Lord!"

Phat's prognostications are as innaccurate as most prophets but his arrogance suggests that he is more of an "attempted prophet". Are you trying to be sarcastic or did you get that right by accident?

May be you should think more than talk.Can a three-year-old do anything FOR his father? Does a happy smile from a baby do anything to his mother?Your fundamental problem: you do not know what God is. (I am sorry, I assume you know what a father/mother is)Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.

No one knows what God is. They can only know about the god that they create and that exists only in their imagination.

Give you another logic lesson:When a person cried: "Lord, Lord";
he could be an unbeliever, like you are. Or,
he could be a faithful believer, like I am.Your interpretation to what Jesus says is FALSE.

The Bible says many many things human can NOT create and can NOT imagine. Do you know that? I can easily give you some examples.

First of all, what difference does it make? We are charged to choose wisely and to live and act wisely. My argument is that The road is narrow and not everyone finds it or lives it. You simply cannot tell God what He has to do in order to avoid being evil. Our job is to thank God for everything good that we receive, ask Him for clarity and grace in moments of hardship or pain, allow Him to change our hearts and perspective to more closely allign with what we would believe to be His perspectives, and quit worry about good Gods and evil gods. It is my belief that satan exists as well as rebellious independent (from God) strongholds, but I never give them any power for I believe that I become the decisions that I make. I fail from time to time, but I believe that this is meant to heppen. Perhaps I see your point in that if I believed in ultimate foreknowledge and marketed such a concept, that would be evil. The only reason that people would market such a concept is to market a God of no limitations. And hypothetically such a God actually could be evil should such a God so want to be evil. Ringo may argue that a God favoring Capitalism and selfishness over spare change altruism may well be evil, and I wont go there...he likely is right. We are charged to do unto the least of these as we would do to ourselves, so I dont really have much of an argument. Our discussion should focus on a God we all collectively market. There should be no argument.

Juvenissun, you have to understand ringos basic argument. Like jar, he believes that Christianity, God, Jesus, and the characters in the Bible were invented by humans. To him, if God actually exists, He seems not to be the responsible God who fixes eevery hurt, takes away every tear, and blesses us with bounty unimaginable. Ringo will argue that only *we* can comfort each other. And he cynically thinks that the folks that give Christianity a bad name are Christians themselves. He does not label himself an atheist or a believer, but only a doer.His political views are quite left wing. He believes that humanity needs to help each other and quit stashing stuff back for themselves and their heirs. He believes that the down and out guy on the corner should be treated as one would treat their own brother. He never seems phased when I complain that his philosophy would empty my closet of anything I held back for myself. He is basically a socialist, though he supports it Biblically.

Why it matters Phat is that is the god the Apologists (and you when you stop dancing for a second) market.

The Bible (and there is no such thing as The Bible) says lots of silly, contradictory and fantasy stuff. It says what humans imagined and wrote and then other humans redacted and yet other humans edited and still other humans compiled into several different anthologies of anthologies.

This is our point of contention. What raises my hackles is that the GOD you market is unknowable while we are still living, and thus you have thrown away the God that Christians usually market and your focus is on marketing good works as a charge for Christians...telling us essentially that the Greatest Commandment sums it all up in Part II. Which only bothers me because one could be a secular humanist and get the job done just as well, and hence you claim to be a Christian yet are an advocate for dismantling the club. And if the God you market never foreknowing damns anyone, all people will be saved who bother to answer the charge. You have upended my aura of exclusivity and special-ness that my Born Again experience gave me.I might point out the differences in thinking, however. ICANT is a good example.He believes that the Bible is divine revelation. He thus believes that it adequately explains anything and everything philosophically, realistically and absolutely.I come close to agreeing, yet am fine with the scientific proof that there was no global flood and that the flood was not literal.I get a bit more feisty when one attempts to prove to me that the Jesus story was made up. And I do not believe that God is unknowable but is knowable through Jesus Christ, whom I believe once lived, existed eternally with GOD before that, exists now as a living presence through the Holy Spirit, and always will exist. This is why God is knowable. Your insistence that God can never be known while we are alive and that He can safely be thrown away is a world view that critical thinking gave you.

That is a very common faith among unbelievers.
One thing I am trying to do is to falsify that idea. Christianity CAN NOT be figured out by human wisdom. It is an impossible task.See, Jar is not even dare to respond to my challenge. Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.

Extremely ignorant understanding.
I challenge you to give just ONE such "stuff". It will hit you back with profound knowledge and wisdom in the Bible.You can run away with this challenge by ignoring me. But the challenge will stand before you as long as you do not believe.