Paradox of Prayer vs. Free Will

Is there anyone here willing to resolve the paradox presented by the violation of free will that ensues upon the answering of a prayer?Now,before I get ahead of myself,I need to ask if anyone who has had a specific prayer answered is able to show us {which necessitates them detailing the prayer itself and how the prayer was answered} why they concluded that prayer was actually fulfilled and at the same time show us how when a prayer was answered that the fulfillment of that specific prayer was able to be accomplished without the altering of the free will of any involved people. An example I might give that is common enough to sports fans is the teams who pray before a game to have God bless their team with a win.In granting the wish does this not require that God has intervened in a way that disrupts the opposing teams free will? {Which we assume to also be to win the game?} Released by Admin

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A snarl, a sneer, a whip that stings. These are a few of my favorite things.

Hi Sidelined:Your OP ASSUMES answered prayer violates free will. What is the source of this belief/assumption ?Certainly logic cannot be cited.

WillowTree I had thought this would be clear enough to show the paradox. Do you wish me to point it out to you?

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A snarl, a sneer, a whip that stings. These are a few of my favorite things.

I think you've failed to address the fact that the universe is not deterministic. Since "God plays dice with the universe", concievably there's a number of things God could influence without stepping on anybody's volition.

Hey Sidey this is a good example.God does NOT take sides in sporting events. This praying makes me cringe and they are playing for the cameras.God can get you to the plate (home) but after that you are on your own.

Crashfrog I am not trying to do so.I am trying to get those who profess to the idea of answered prayers and free will both being available without inducing a paradox. I also am requiring someone to step forward with their own story that explains this paradox without contradiction.As for the statement that God plays dice with the universe can you give an example of how God would avoid stepping on toes and at the same time "influence" the result.

WillowTree Really?!! I suppose you have investigated these individuals to ascertain whether they were hyping for the camera or whether they actually believe this prayer to be effective? Otherwise this statement has no validity.

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A snarl, a sneer, a whip that stings. These are a few of my favorite things.

Doesn't matter.If cameras are around people will perform in front of them. In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus said to not pray on a street corner to be seen of men. What could be a more perfect interpretation of "street corner" than a camera ?Of course they will cite good intentions, would anyone admit to playing for cameras ?Jesus identified the hypocrisy of praying in public 2000 years ago. People do it to be seen of men regardless of what they claim. BTW, Jesus never prayed in public. His prayer in John 17 was in the privacy of His chosen closet/Garden.

WillowTreeI may assume then that you do not believe prayer is answered? If not, fine, my post is not directed at you. If so. then please explain the way in which it was answered that avoided the influencing of people and therefore changed the free will of those influenced.

When prayer is answered I guess technically it does violate free will.This is supposed to happen.Once again what is the source of your assumption that answered prayer is a violation of free will ?

It says in the NT, "Ask for anything in my name, and if it be according to God's will, it shall be granted" (similar words).We can ask for anything. Even in sports I suppose, and if it be according to God's will, then it shall be so. If I ask to ass whoop the other team, the other team might also pray to open a can of whoop ass on me. However, I doubt sport is really up there on God's will list. If I ask that a poor person may recieve food, I suppose that doesn't really go against anyone's freewill, and it would definately be up there on God's will.Nevertheless, freewill isn't the be all and end all/only power. I am sure it can be put aside for God's will, as his purposes are the greater, as you can see with the sport example. I.e. If God's purpose is to help people, and our's is to whine about a silly sport game, then obviously - God's will be done.

WillowTree If,in making a prayer that involves other people, myself, events in the world,etc., an answer to that prayer by God would necessitate the altering of other lives with or without their knowledge. This constitues a breaking of the free-will and forces us into a contradiction.This constitutes a paradox wherein we must{as far as I can see} eliminate either the possibility of free-will or the answering of prayer.
If you doubt that fine but please allow me to demonstrate by using an example wherein you had a prayer answered that does not invoke the paradox or explains how both may co-exist.

Well,that statement sure eliminates free will from the picture.LOL

Yes, you can call me Zee.i suppose it might eliminate freewill a bit. I guess it explains how freewill is important, but not as importanr as God's.

Unfortunately it does not appear to eliminate free-will it would appear to devestate it.Obviously in a clash of wills God would win and you would lose.Therefore it would seem to matter little to pray since God's will will be what it is despite your wishes for it to possibly be different.