He/she had repeatedly said he was offended. That's emotion and that kind of emotion has the effect of shutting up anyone who thinks that perhaps the person who is offended on account of personal experience is in fact in the wrong.
He by the way.
The level of emotion expressed in a debate does not negate my argument. At times I expressed things in a very STRONG manner but that is because I constantly feel like you don't even read what I say. Maybe if I make it BOLD and
UNDERLINED you might read it instead of skipping my posts like it seems you do. Since I have no basis for what you have read or not it is
very frustrating for you to just repeat your argument after I had already raised a counterpoint instead of addressing my counterpoint. Regardless of why or how you post like you do makes it seem like you do not debate in good faith. You need to start addressing the points raised instead of just repeating your initial argument. Remember, YOU raised the claims and I have posted counterpoints. SO far they have been categorically ignored.
And that certainly does happen as those with the experience naturally see things from their own or their family's point of view and have little sympathy with the enemy. The only "proof" that the Israelis are at fault is that they destroyed his family's olive trees. While that sounds very bad, its badness so far has no justification other than the family's loss of the olive trees and his feelings about that.
This is a perfect example of your duck and dodge tactics regardless if they come from willfully ignoring my posts or accidently. "The only proof" that I have is not that my family had their olive trees torn down. It is that they repeated had them torn down after planting again, had their farm burned, had their children barred from school, with no justification. These actions can partially be confirmed from the links I posted about the destruction of Palestinian agriculture primarily olive trees. And then we have a wonderful comment of your following.
He doesn't know why the Israelis destroyed them, he merely assumes there was no good reason because he believes his family had no part in terrorist action and misses the olive trees.
What am I supposed to do with this statement? You basically accusing my family of supporting terrorism. You are also trivializing what bulldozing olive trees can do to a culture that depends on its agriculture resources. Once you plant a new olive tree it takes up to 2 generations of human lives before it starts producing harvest worthy fruit. Grandfathers will plant trees when they are young so that their grandchildren can eat the fruit.
My family did not "miss" the trees. They
needed them. My family has never engaged in terrorism. You statement that "he believes his family had no part in terrorist action" is blatantly offensive. I am offended often not by your arguments but like uncalled for things that you say like this.
That's arguing from emotion, not fact.
The fact is that these things happened to my family. The fact is that my family are not terrorists. Therefore this refutes you argument that "all Israeli action is against terrorists."
You'd say that about me and not about jazzns whose support is ONLY his biased opinion? (To this point in the thread anyway).
And yours isn't. The only references you have given thus far have been pro-Israel apologetic sites and books. My arguments are from first hand experience and I have given you links from mainstream news which you choose to ignore because you think they are not worthy. In reality the only evidence you will accept is that which agrees with your argument. You cling so hard to your hatred of other people that you cannot even fathom that you might even be a little bit wrong.
I'm sure they HAVE been oppressed by the Israelis. I have no doubt about that. The Israelis are always bulldozing houses and going after terrorists in their villages. That has to be incredibly oppressive.
Well will you look at that. She budged. Thank you Faith.
But it's just amazing how the REASONS the Israelis are doing this are always left out of the story. And I'll get to your BBC report which is a case in point in a minute. All we hear are the sufferings of the Palestinians. It's just very strange how motive and cause makes no difference to anybody. Israeli military operations to stop suicide bombers are treated as if they were merely acts of aggression. This is crazy crazy moral blindness.
Well, if you had read the BBC and other news reports that I listed you will often find that the Israeli's were part of an action against identifiable militants when the atrocities occurred. In many of the news reports this is easily identifiable. In some of the other news reports where the IDF have not committed blatant atrocities you hear more about the Israeli suffering from an attack because the injustice is on the other side for a moment. Then you have the cases that are incredibly unjustified. The 12 year old girl got killed by being directly targeted. The IDF DOES USE human shields. The story I linked from FOX talks about how they made some men in a barbershop minding their own business drink shampoo and shave their heads. Houses get bulldozed even if they have no idea that they are housing or helping Hamas. There is no reason to destroy Palestinian infrastructure or stop children from going to school. The only thing that this does is enrage the populace being targeted. Groups like Hamas will never want to stop until minor concessions are made by Israel like....I don't know....for starters.....abiding by the Geneva Convention!
OK so I read this story. It's about Jenin which is a HOTBED of terrorist activity. So an Israeli soldier apparently lost his cool and shot the wrong person. That kind of thing happens a lot in all war, and this is certainly war. It ignores the context of the nervewracking tactics of the terrorists who pretend to be civilians, who hide in ambulances, who can appear in any guise whatever. I don't suppose you saw the video footage from a few years ago of a bunch of Palestinians carrying a dead comrade on a stretcher wrapped in cloth, when they dropped the stretcher, and the "dead" comrade got up off the ground and walked perfectly fine.
Don't pass the buck Faith. No has said that Hamas or other terrorists are innocent. No one here is claiming thus far that some Palestinians are committing atrocities of their own. The whole point is you said that all action is against terrorists. Since you seem to have partially agreed we can just issue a "war sucks" and move on to the topic about Islam.
The Israelis set up checkpoints and build a wall, bulldoze terrorist tunnels closed and try to kill terrorists without harming civilians, all to protect themselves, but the great media machine ALWAYS play up the inconveniences to the Palestinians caused by these operations [and] makes them [the Israelis] out to be the aggressors. What a set-up.
Okay. This is another example of why you are offensive. Lets read this one more time.
the inconveniences to the Palestinians caused by these operations
I suppose that dying is technically and inconvenience but your rhetoric is not very amusing. Have the government go bulldoze your house and destroy your way of life and tell me if it is an "inconvenience" for you.
Also, they use the word "militants" which is akin to "freedom fighters" which carries a pro-Palestinian spin, avoiding "terrorists,"
Thats called "being objective" Faith. If they called all Palestinian fighters with guns terrorists then that would be a pro-Israel biased. It would be the same as calling the IDF "the most honorable protection force in the region". Maybe you should forgive the news for using neutral words like they should be.
I know my previous post was long but it would be courteous if you could at least tell me if you planned on responding.
By the way, for a fun second-term drinking game, chug a beer every time you hear the phrase, "...contentious but futile protest vote by democrats." By the time Jeb Bush is elected president you will be so wasted you wont even notice the war in Syria.
-- Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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