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Author | Topic: Heaven Prerequisites According to Mike | |||||||||||||||||||||||
mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
Why should yours be taken any more seriously than the others? Listen, I'm not even trying to convince you of Christ Rrhain. It's you making these statements. I know you don't believe, that's where it ends for me - I'm not going to try and convince you of the Gospel because you have already heard it and made your choice.
Well, according to WILLOWTREE, I need god to do it for me. I'd have to here that from Willowtree, no offense Rrhain but your nor usually accurate when discussing what other people have said. - Okay, maybe your right, maybe God does need to get involved - I don't know.
In short, HigherLove is trying to claim that he's not condemning anybody to hell, but he actually is Though his/her actual quote does not need your interpretation as it's quite clear - No one is condemning you to hell, but Jesus did mention hell, and it's our duty to inform you on everything he said. If you want us to butter his words up than your asking us to lie to you.
Ergo, I was being condemned to hell. No one can condemn you to hell. Remember the prostitute who came to Jesus, Jesus then said 'Neither do I condemn you'. The teachings about the son of man judging all nations tells us that judgement is a very complex thing. ie. Someone can say they are a believer, let's take me for example but they have not done good to their neighbour - therefore I could well be a goat. And you for example could say you're an unbeliever even though you have done good to your neighbour - and off to Heaven Rrhain goes. For all I know that could be what happens, so maybe you know this Christian's position a bit clearer now.It annoys me if people are telling you you're going to hell. They haven't spent the correct amount of time reading the NT.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
mike the wiz responds to me:
quote:quote: Every time you say that your theology is right, you are.
quote: I'm not the one condemning anybody to hell.
quote: No, you don't. I've been very careful to keep my personal opinions about the existence or non-existence of god out of all discussions. Just because I disagree with your theology doesn't mean I don't have any.
quote: Then why do you keep doing so? Every time you say that your theology is right, you do it.
quote: True, but don't fool yourself into thinking you know what my choice was.
quote:quote: You could read the threads and see for yourself.
quote: BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, that's just rich. That's just precious! I daresay I'm one of the more accurate people. I tend to include the entire post of the people that I respond to and I quite often link back to the original post if it's from a while ago in order to make sure that people know that I am quoting accurately. Since you seem to be unwilling to do your own homework, I'll do it for you:
Message 31 of "Where did God come from?" Thread: A person cannot manufacture the desire for God contrary to what anyone might claim. And from the same post:
Am I saying absence of urge for God means He doesn't want you ? Yes I am Message 48 of "Where did God come from?" Thread: IF the Bible teaches that ANY degree of urge for God can only initially originate from God (which is my claim) it is a linear continuim, a one way street. Message 56 of "Where did God come from?" Thread: A person cannot believe unless God FIRST implants the desire/urge to want Him So you tell me, mike...what do you think WILLOWTREE said?
quote:quote: It most certainly does. When a person says something he does not mean, it must be interpreted in order to find out what was actually meant.
quote: If you say that I will go to hell if I don't do something, then that is condemning me to hell.
quote: So did HigherLove.
quote: Which means you endorse and support what was said. Ergo you, too, are condemning me to hell.
quote: I've got a better idea: Why don't you let Jesus speak for himself. He doesn't need your help.
quote:quote: Then why do you?
quote: But that isn't what you're saying. You're saying that if I don't do what you say, I'll go to hell. Jesus isn't here posting. You are.
quote: And what it also tells us is that you don't have any business attempting to do so. Your threatening me with hell if I don't do what you tell me I should do is exactly what you're not supposed to do. Stop worrying about other people and concentrate on your own behaviour.
quote: But I thought salvation was granted by faith, not deeds. That's what the Bible says, at any rate. Thus, a serial killer who repents just before dying and never did a good deed in his life goes to heaven.
quote: Then you just annoy yourself quite a bit. Every time you tell me your theology is right, you condemn me to hell if I disagree.
quote: And neither have you, apparently. ------------------Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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HigherLove Inactive Member |
Final Decision: YOU NEED JESUS! It's foolish to keep ignoring him as if He is some telemarketer. He is the key to your ultimate eternal happiness.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
HigherLove responds to me:
quote: Says who? You? Why should we believe you? The vast majority of the world doesn't seem to need Jesus and they get along just fine. So how do you manage to justify your claim of a need for Jesus?
quote: Says who? You? Why should we believe you?
quote: BZZZZT! Pascal's Wager. I'm so sorry, HigherLove. Johnny, tell him what parting gifts he has! Well, Bob, HigherLove has won himself a lifetime of anguish in someone else's hell! Yes, that's right. After spending all of his life fighting against Satan and worshipping the Christian god, HigherLove gets a reward of going straight to Hades for his hubris. He'll be sentenced to solve a series of puzzles for which the instructions can be read in many ways. Every attempt to glean more information will be met with "Since it would just be a waste of my time to tell you, I won't." Of course, every proposed solution will conflict with something in the contradictory instructions. This being for his continued insistence that those around him are unworthy of explanations. But, he won't get hungry because he'll have an afterlife-time supply of Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco Treat. You didn't really think that the god that truly exists is the Christian one, did you? ------------------Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 765 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
YOU NEED JESUS! It's foolish to keep ignoring him as if He is some telemarketer.
I hope he gets paid by the hour, and not by the number of calls he completes...
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Stephen ben Yeshua Inactive Member |
If I have properly gotten the drift of Mike's position, it is that heaven is likely enough to be out there, that it is worth seeking. And if one decides to bet on that, to invest their life seeking to enter heaven, what is the tack most likely to succeed?
I might add on here, that there is something known as "treasure in heaven," which implies that not only is getting to heaven a hopeful idea, but having more treasure there is also good. So, we might want to inquire how to get rich in heaven, after we are assured of getting there. Finally, if not getting to heaven implies certainly going to Hell, that is, there is no purgatory or neutral alternative, getting to heaven becomes even more interesting. But, what are we talking about? Angels playing harps on clouds? A glorious feast, with great music and entertaining company, wonderful food? Something called worship, which would best be described as really, really good sex. I think it was CS Lewis, who supposed that actual sex was a shadow of what it felt like in heaven. But, for all this pleasure, there is a cost, that Milton caught in the devil's comment, that he would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven. We, alas, are servants there, love slaves perhaps. Our master is most loving, but we are after the joy of Samwise here, who gets the last line in the Lord of the Rings. We have to choose the joy of service and submission. Not what everyone would choose, of course. Anyway, what is the surest way to get to heaven, and avoid hell, should that be your choice? The theologians observe that the way is open to everyone by what Yeshua did on the cross. Moreover, we are told that the Spirit is poured out on all flesh, so everyone whatever their situation, has some insights in answer to this question. But we are also advised that to whom much is given, much is required. We all here have been given, at great historical cost, the scriptures. What counsel can we find there? Yeshua talked a lot about this, and Peter, writing much later, inserted the only "be very diligent" in the Scriptures, exhorting all to be "sure of their election and calling." Very diligent doing what? Being sure implies having faith, which comes from hearing God speak, so we are advised. Thus, the most direct way to know about one's "election and calling" would be to ask God to speak to you about the matter. "He walks with me, and He talks with me, and He tells me I am His own." (from a famous hymn). Can it be that simple? "Hey, God, or whatever spiritual beings who might be out there and in charge of a heavenly place of truth and love. Elect me, call me, tell me I'm invited to the banquet." When He starts telling you that you are saved, and you accept what He says by repeating it back to Him (confessing it), you're in. When He starts talking, I do recommend that you ask Him about the following scriptures: My sheep know My voice. The rich man was excluded from heaven because he had Moses and the prophets, but ignored them. Those who don't forgive are not forgiven. Those who say they know God, but do not keep His commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them. and, All liars have their place in the lake of fire. I never knew you, begone from Me all you who practise lawlessness. Never forgetting, of course, that if you confess your sins, He is faithful and just to forgive you, and cleanse you from all unrighteousness. Admitting that you cannot forgive someone, but ought to, is actually to be counted as forgiving them. Ditto with keeping the commandments, etc. Most of us, as we are, are undesirable dinner guests. God is not much interested in having us as house guests for eternity, as we are. But He made us to be different than the way we are, and if we choose, we can become actually fairly decent company. We just have to choose the life He created us for, instead of the life we have chosen for ourselves. I say all this because any who find it helpful, and end up seated next to me at the great banquet, will be great fun. A real treasure. And those who examine the choice set before them, and choose to not seek Him and His voice, will make the Judge's task on judgment day oh ever so much easier. Nothing like an open and shut case. So many, Yeshua noted, on that day will try to exclaim, "Oh, I didn't know! Why didn't you tell me?" So, ask Him already!
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
If I have properly gotten the drift of Mike's position, it is that heaven is likely enough to be out there, that it is worth seeking. Yes. This is what I would say to an Atheist who totally disbelieves. I was basically saying, "be open minded Atheists" However, personally I know Heaven IS out there. I was discussing the possibility of Christ's Kingdom in an unbelieving but open/scientific mind. - But I thought I explained all this months ago. I'm a bit confused as to your position when you mention His voice - God. Do you mean you have heard an actual voice? - or you simply have an ear to hear and so hear Jesus' voice, i.e. the sheep. Your posts in other topics have confused me slightly as to the voice you mention .
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
mike the wiz responds to Stephen Fretwell:
quote:quote: BZZZZT! Pascal's Wager. I'm so sorry, Stephen and mike. Johnny, tell them what parting gifts they have! Well, Bob, Stephen and mike have won themselves a lifetime of anguish in someone else's hell! Yes, that's right. After spending all of their lives fighting against Satan and worshipping the Christian god, Stephen and mike get a reward of going straight to Hades for their hubris. They'll be sentenced to solve a series of puzzles for which the instructions can be read in many ways. Every attempt to glean more information will be met with "Since it would just be a waste of my time to tell you, I won't." Of course, every proposed solution will conflict with something in the contradictory instructions. This being for their continued insistence that those around him are unworthy of explanations. But, they won't get hungry because they'll have an afterlife-time supply of Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco Treat. You didn't really think that the god that truly exists is the Christian one, did you?
quote: What about the possibility of the Eleysian Fields in an unbelieving but open/Christian mind? ------------------Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Stephen Fretwell writes:
quote: BZZZZT! Pascal's Wager. I'm so sorry, Stephen Fretwell. Johnny, tell him what parting gifts he has! Well, Bob, Stephen Fretwell has won himself a lifetime of anguish in someone else's hell! Yes, that's right. After spending all of his life fighting against Satan and worshipping the Christian god, Stephen Fretwell gets a reward of going straight to Hades for his hubris. He'll be sentenced to solve a series of puzzles for which the instructions can be read in many ways. Every attempt to glean more information will be met with "Since it would just be a waste of my time to tell you, I won't." Of course, every proposed solution will conflict with something in the contradictory instructions. This being for his continued insistence that those around him are unworthy of explanations. But, he won't get hungry because he'll have an afterlife-time supply of Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco Treat. You didn't really think that the god that truly exists is the Christian one, did you? ------------------Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
Zis Pascals wager is starting to bore me man. You need to zing a new tune before sundown or I'll have to shift baramins and go full hippo on auto - pilot. Oooooooops......too late you've activated me, Rrhain has won a trip to baramin Heaven with no prerequisites on the way there, he'll wager a new pascal when reflexing his intrinsical diagram AND/OR be free from his own conjured up hell, untill full realisation that Mike the Wiz has no prerequisites on his file. Then and/ONLY when he has freed himself from his own hell sentence he'll come back to earth via the milky way and with stars on his HEELS will reel with delight at the new found influencal Heaven baramin in his biological capacity OR > his brain.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
mike the wiz responds to me:
quote: Then stop invoking it. It is an invalid reason to believe in god. ------------------Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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Stephen ben Yeshua Inactive Member |
Hey, Mike,
May I speculate on "the voice?" It sounds to me as if neurons in the auditory part of my brain are firing, to the sound of a voice that is most like the man who mentored me, but different. I used to day-dream a lot, and imagined a lot of voices in my head, all recognizable. So, when God began talking to me, I had a lot of reference material. It scared, I suppose literally, the hell out of me. I knew that this was someone I had never talked to before, saying stuff that I could not be making up. But, of course, I quickly doubted, and needed follow-up confirmations in the electro-magnetic world. But, so far, I have had no sense of my eardrums vibrating at all. The important part of all this, as I now understand it, is that I am not alone in any useful thought. I don't have an idea, I am with a person. A Person, actually. It's relational, not knowledge or reason. I end up doing what I do because Someone likes it, or told me to, not because I, on my own, am having fun. We're always having fun, rarely me alone. That feels different.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
Have you been to a doctor about this? I'm not being insulting, I'm just wondering if you know for sure (to your knowledge)- that it's God's voice. I mean , could you ask him this for me:
"Michael wants to hear your voice in his head" This post may sound skeptical but this is a forum , and you could just be having a joke with me. I'm certain it is possible for God to speak to someone, as I do believe in him, so I will refrain from judgement. Are You yourself convinced it is him - what does he say?
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
Rrhain, is that you smiling in the picture?
It was just a light hearted post, aren't you being a little argumentative over a bit of fun? Try singing this: "I like life, life likes me...." Maybe it's that Darth picture, should I find a happier Avatar? [This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 12-29-2003]
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
mike the wiz responds to me:
quote: What do you think?
quote: I know it was. Get over it. Why are you obsessing?
quote: Ah, Scrooge. 1970, Leslie Briscusse for music, book, and lyrics. Kenneth More in the British movie and Stratford Johns in the 1992 stage version playing the Ghost of Christmas Present. Movie nominated for 4 Oscars. Albert Finney (Scrooge) won a Golden Globe for Best Actor. I like life! Life likes me!Life and I fairly fully agree! Life is fine! Life is good! 'Specially mine which is just as it should be. I like pouring the wine and why not? Life's a pleasure that I deny not! What makes you think I have my MFA in Musical Theatre? ------------------Rrhain WWJD? JWRTFM!
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