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Author | Topic: Is this Bible verse about believers and poison to be taken literally? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
No, No...I am the stupidist, I am the stupidist. I am the chief among sinners, not YOU! You are an agnostic relativist!
Which God, again? When discussing the Bible, do me a favor and stick to the god that you rejected...as a frame of reference. In reply to my other post where I told you of my illness, I want you to understand that I need an absolute truth in my life! Now...if only we can all just get along! (Appologies to Rodney King)
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: That comment was in reference to the fact that Faith called me "the stupidest person on this forum." It's just a reminder to her that I have not forgotten.
quote: Pretty much.
Which God, again? quote: I can't reject something that I can't determine if it exists or not.
quote: That's fine.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So, does the Bible mention anything about a time limit or any limitation on when these signs would be seen or who would be doing them?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Time limit?
NIV writes: Some say that that verse explains away many of the signs and wonders as having ceased. It does not mention "snakes" specifically, but it does mention tongues, which was contextually linked with snakes. 1 Cor 13:8-10- Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. "How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives."-- Anne Dillard Every tool carries with it the spirit by which it had been created.-- Werner Karl Heisenberg: (1901-1976) German physicist I read the newspaper avidly. It is my one form of continuous fiction.-- Aneurin Bevan: (1897-1960) English politician
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Hangdawg13 Member (Idle past 751 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: |
My pastor always used to teach that this meant that signs and wonders would cease after the church got going, but I disagree. I think they are continuing even today here in America, but especially in the more obscure parts of the world where Christianity is spreading like a wildfire despite persecution.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
My friend who grew up heavy in ole time Assemblies of God type "praying through" at the altar type churches would agree with you. He and I have seen supernbatural manifestations, so i probably should be like him, but I am too skeptical...don't know why>>>
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4676 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
...does the Bible mention anything about a time limit or any limitation... Hey! That was my line of questioning!
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4676 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Faith writes: Statement *I* made you say?
Exd 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. Exodus quote: Out of context in the conversation between God and Moses concerning whether or not God would reveal His glory to Moses. I don't see how this relates to the subject of salvation. Romans quotes: They are within Paul's explanation of why he evangelizes the gentiles and the fact that they, too, are included in the plan of salvation. Certainly, the quote relates to salvation but I am reading it as God is not limited to extending his "mercy" to the original "Children of God". Besides, applying this passage to the idea that God chooses who will be saved flys in the face of the passages that state He wants all to come to Him. Plus, it kinda negates the need for evangelism because God doesn't need you to tell everyone about Jesus if God Himself makes the choice (or actually made the choice already) of who gets to be saved.
Faith writes: On topic, you still need to Biblically support your position that the gifts and miracles from Mark 16:17 and 18 are for only particular types of unbelievers and not for those who, like Thomas, require physical evidence. This was my inference from passages already provided, but I could add this one 1Cr 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. Unless I am missing something, NONE of the "passages already provided" show any limitation on WHICH unbelievers that the "signs" are supposed to impress enough to convince them to be saved. Unless you are saying the the people of the United States (for example) actually do believe but refuse to accept. That is a bit of a stretch, I think. Your reasonable conjecture based on facts already presented?!! Those 'facts' are only the observation that the miracles are not seen in the "West" and assertions you made, without any Biblical backup. Look, I am willing to accept, for this discussion, that the Bible is absolutely true. That means that you can use the Bible to explain any conclusion that you have drawn about the passage in question. In fact, you must support your interpretation of these passages with the Bible since It is the source of revealed knowledge in the matters of God. Extra Biblical assumptions without support are just your opinion and carry no weight in this discussion.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Hi, Schraff! Thanks for the personal encouragement, by the way!
Getting back to your original topic where you say It {The Bible} very clearly says that anyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah will be able to drink any deadly thing without coming to any harm. Personally, I believe that there are very few believers who are ready to have their faith stretched to such a point that they would be ready vessels for Gods demonstrative powers. Many Biblical commentators think that the Church of Laodecia describes the current atmosphere in America..to wit:Rev 3:14-18 It also very clearly says that believers will be able to heal sick people simply by touching them. If we are to take these statements literally, then why isn't it common knowledge that Christians are immune to poison? Also, why don't we see real, undeniable faith healing by believers instead of that fraudulent huxster stuff?"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm-neither hot nor cold-I am about to spit you out of my mouth. You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. Here in America, we have a lukewarm church. We are Christians in principle, but were there to be a big test of our faith, it is questionable if many (or even few) Christians would be ready to deny the reality of the system around them for Gods sake. Another thread that you started mentioned the possibility of America becoming a police state. I will continue my line of thought there. PB This message has been edited by Phatboy, 05-02-2005 07:04 AM This message has been edited by Phatboy, 05-02-2005 07:05 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Yeah, I know.
I thought it was good, so I stole it, because I am a godless immoral Agnostic.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3458 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Reading the passage at face value without added tradition, I can understand why there are no more signs etc.
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. The "good news" that Jesus preached was:
Mark 1:14-15 After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!" That is not what Christianity preaches today, therefore the signs are not there.
1 Corinthians 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. Even Paul preached as though the kingdom of God was imminent. As far as not testing God, God does not deter us from testing those who claim to speak for him, those who claim to know his will, those who claim to be apostles, or spirits that seem to come from God. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4676 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
purpledawn writes: Mark 1:14-15
That is not what Christianity preaches today, therefore the signs are not there.After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!" Christians today don't preach that the kingdom of God is imminent? I wholeheartedly disagree! What was that entire "Left Behind" book series about? The evangelicals have been pointing to the sky since they took root. The Baptists have been waiting for the rapture from the time they were established. They have been baptising everyone they can get their hands on. All sects of Christianity preach repentance. I don't see one thing that you delineated that is not preached by Christians somewhere. Perhaps you need to explain more fully what you mean by "That is not what Christianity preaches today..."
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4676 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
How did you post the day before the post to which you are replying?
Is your computer's clock off or what?
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redseal Inactive Member |
You have asked an important question. And you will have an important answer:
Yes, indeed The Lord's Chosen shall be safe from harm if they drink poisons. For God's Rigorous Instruction does not contain falsehoods! The fact that many "believers" die from diseases, poisons and illnesses is proof that they are not True Christians. These false christians are cotton-wool charlatans that have ignored the Lord's tenets; their insincere and half-hearted belief in the Power and Majesty of The Lord God Almighty means that they are as damned as the most wicked sinner! This message has been edited by redseal, 05-03-2005 08:17 AM
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3458 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Mark 13:30
That is near, at hand, imminent.I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Two thousand years+ is not "at hand."
quote:The author's impression of what the Christian rapture will be like. quote:They don't preach that the Kingdom of God is imminent, unless of course some major disaster happens or a millenium comes about. Christian Baptist Beliefs excerpt:
Christian Baptist beliefs about SALVATION: We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures as a substitutionary sacrifice, and that all who believe-on Him and repent (fully acknowledge that they have sinned against God by breaking His holy law, and turn from sin to Christ) are justified on the ground of His shed blood on the cross, and are saved by grace through faith, wholly apart from human-merit and works. (John 1:29; Acts 13:38, 39; 16:31; Romans 3: 21-28; Ephesians 2:8-10, Titus 3:3-8; Luke 13:3,5) Christian Baptist beliefs about EVANGELISM: We believe that it is the privilege and responsibility of every believer to be a personal soul winner and to do his utmost to give the Gospel of Christ to the whole world.... They preach the "good news" of Christ not that the Kingdom of God is at hand. I've been a Protestant Christian for over 40 years. Never felt the Kingdom was imminent from what the churches taught. Evangelist gave the message repent so you don't burn in hell, not that the Kingdom is imminent. The only thing imminent is our own mortality. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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