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Author | Topic: Is this Bible verse about believers and poison to be taken literally? | |||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I don't abide the Christian tradition of one-liners. Read the prophets as a whole and not in pieces. Here's a start.
Malachi 2:2 Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. 2:3 And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 2:4 And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4697 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
purpledawn writes:
Well I didn't know it was a tradition....that's another one I didn't get told. That's what happens when you have to count the offering money. You miss part of the sermon. I don't abide the Christian tradition of one-liners. Regardless, I thought that you would be using multiple related scripture verses to support your point of view. Since you only provided one prophet's words I guess that I can comment on these alone.
quote: This does say the the House of the Lord will be established in the future but does not define the "House of the Lord". The description is of a judgement and establishment of a kingdom along with continuous peace. (Argueing from a bit of a vacuum, since I don't know what other prophets you are going to trot out) How does this relate to what Christ was saying? Malachi was just using ideas that he and his audience understood. He didn't know about Christ's death and resurection. Besides, the Christian view of the return of Christ's millenial kingdom fits with this prophecy. Remember, the God of Jacob is also the God of Christ. Maybe you can point to the parts that specifically negate the majority Christian view of salvation through Christ being the "good news". I guess I need more information to understand your position. However, I have a question related to the OP.Are you saying that the stuff Christ said in Mark 16:17 and 18, cannot be accomplished by modern Christians because of their spreading of the wrong "good news"? Is there any group of believers in God that can perform these amazing feats?
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:I said read the prophets. You have a Christian Bible, read the writings of the prophets. I didn't intend to give you one-liners you could argue with. If you want to understand my comments, read the prophets. Since this isn't related to the OP or my original post I don't intend to get into a debate about it.
quote:If the words are to be taken at face value, yes. quote:I think that was one of Schraf's points. If these words are to be taken literally (at face value) why aren't they performed consistently by, at the bare minimum, the Christian clergy of today when they are evangelizing? Quite obviously these amazing feats are not consistently performed by any group of Christians today. Therefore if the author's words are to be taken at face value, Christians apparently are not spreading the right news. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
Aside from the possibility that Christians today aren't preaching the correct good news, we also have the possibility that this section was added later to lend support to Christian recruitment.
As I understand it, the Jews didn't agressively recruit new members. "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4697 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Since this isn't related to the OP or my original post I don't intend to get into a debate about it. You're the one who put forth your interpretation of what the "good news" was. Then you said that the misinterpretation of that term by Christians caused the loss of ability to perform the miracles of Mark 16:17 and 18. From my point of view this is an assertion that runs counter to the mainstream Christian interpretation. It seems to me that you should support your assertion since it is central to your explanation of the observed problem. So, I do see it as directly related to the OP. It is this very interpretation of "good news" or "Gospel" that is in contention. I didn't see how Malachi relates to this interpretation or to the "good news" at all. Could you thread it together for me? If it is a topic drift then let the admins police it.
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LinearAq Member (Idle past 4697 days) Posts: 598 From: Pocomoke City, MD Joined: |
Aside from the possibility that Christians today aren't preaching the correct good news, we also have the possibility that this section was added later to lend support to Christian recruitment. As I understand it, the Jews didn't agressively recruit new members. I agree that it is very possible that Mark 16:9-20 are additions since they don't appear in the oldest manuscripts of Mark that have been found. Jews didn't agressively recruit new members but they did allow converts. I think the process involved learning about their religion, followed by a ceremony involving dunking in water to signify death to the old way and rebirth into the Jewish family. I am not sure of that last statement because it is from a Christian group and may only be hearsay.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
In the Book of Mark, as I showed in Message 116, the author does not define the good news as dealing with a belief that Jesus is the Son of God (literally) or his resurrection.
Mark 1:14-15 After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. "The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!" When Jesus sent out the twelve
Mark 6:12-13 They went out and preached that people should repent. They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them. Here also they don't appear to be preaching to believe that Jesus was the son of God (literally) and couldn't preach the resurrection or that Jesus had died for their sins because it hadn't happened yet. In Message 132 you asked what MY definition is of the Kingdom of God that Jesus preached (mainly because I don't equate the Kingdom of God with the Kingdom of Christ.) I gave you my understanding and in Message 136 I told you that the Biblical basis for my understanding is the prophets. My definition has nothing to do with the face value of what the author of Mark has Jesus saying.
quote:I didn't say that they misinterpreted the term, I said that they are not preaching the same good news that the author of Mark described at the beginning of the book. The church excerpts that you shared also showed that churches are not preaching the same good news that Jesus did according to the author of Mark. At face value, I don't find in the book of Mark that the author defines the good news as being about Jesus being the Son of God (literally), the resurrection, that Jesus died for their sins, or a second coming. The author also doesn't mention the kingdom of Christ. Where in the book of Mark do you find the author describing at face value the good news that churches preach today? "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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