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Author Topic:   Is this Bible verse about believers and poison to be taken literally?
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 1 of 142 (202435)
04-25-2005 10:24 PM


To any and all Biblical literalists here (especially Faith):
Should the following verses be taken literally, especially the bolded bit?
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
It very clearly says that anyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah will be able to drink any deadly thing without coming to any harm.
It also very clearly says that believers will be able to heal sick people simply by touching them.
If we are to take these statements literally, then why isn't it common knowledge that Christians are immune to poison? Also, why don't we see real, undeniable faith healing by believers instead of that fraudulent huxster stuff?
I've asked this question a bunc of times and have been completely ignored.
I thought it might finally get some attention if it had it's own thread.
Faith and Belief, please.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Nighttrain, posted 04-26-2005 4:00 AM nator has not replied
 Message 4 by jar, posted 04-26-2005 11:42 AM nator has replied
 Message 5 by arachnophilia, posted 04-26-2005 1:13 PM nator has replied
 Message 9 by mike the wiz, posted 04-26-2005 7:20 PM nator has replied
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 04-26-2005 9:44 PM nator has replied
 Message 36 by PecosGeorge, posted 04-27-2005 8:44 AM nator has replied
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 04-28-2005 2:30 AM nator has not replied
 Message 114 by Phat, posted 05-02-2005 8:57 AM nator has not replied
 Message 119 by redseal, posted 05-03-2005 8:05 AM nator has not replied

  
AdminAsgara
Administrator (Idle past 2302 days)
Posts: 2073
From: The Universe
Joined: 10-11-2003


Message 2 of 142 (202439)
04-25-2005 10:34 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 3 of 142 (202509)
04-26-2005 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
04-25-2005 10:24 PM


Well, Schraf, after years of having PCs (Pseudo or Pretend Christians) back away smartly, I`m still waiting for a believer to step up for his medicine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 04-25-2005 10:24 PM nator has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 142 (202574)
04-26-2005 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
04-25-2005 10:24 PM


Just wanted to amke it clear
that that is part of what many consider to be later additions to Mark. Many of us believe that was part of creating a cult and is simply wrong.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 04-25-2005 10:24 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by arachnophilia, posted 04-26-2005 1:14 PM jar has not replied
 Message 7 by nator, posted 04-26-2005 7:04 PM jar has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 5 of 142 (202632)
04-26-2005 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
04-25-2005 10:24 PM


heh, normally i use that point myself. alright, i'll play along.
It very clearly says that anyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah will be able to drink any deadly thing without coming to any harm.
quote:
Deu 6:16 Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted [him] in Massah.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 04-25-2005 10:24 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by nator, posted 04-26-2005 7:06 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 6 of 142 (202634)
04-26-2005 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
04-26-2005 11:42 AM


Re: Just wanted to amke it clear
Many of us believe that was part of creating a cult and is simply wrong.
you mean "southern baptists?"
This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 04-26-2005 12:14 PM

אָרַח

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nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 7 of 142 (202780)
04-26-2005 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
04-26-2005 11:42 AM


Re: Just wanted to amke it clear
Well, right, I can accept that interpretation easily.
I want to hear from the people who say that they take the Bible as 100% literally true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 04-26-2005 11:42 AM jar has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 8 of 142 (202781)
04-26-2005 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by arachnophilia
04-26-2005 1:13 PM


Well, Deuteronomy in the OT and the passage I am quoting is from the NT.
Wouldn't most Christian Biblical Literalists give more weight to the NT?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by arachnophilia, posted 04-26-2005 1:13 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by arachnophilia, posted 04-26-2005 10:11 PM nator has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 9 of 142 (202784)
04-26-2005 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
04-25-2005 10:24 PM


Shraff, there aren't any serpents in Britain, except adders which are hard to find. I will answer your question if you answer my questions; Should I actively seek a serpent or pray for an ill person? Is it God who heals or me? If it was I that could heal, then I would go and lay hands on everyone, but I don't have the faith or courage in myself. If these signs aren't abundantly clear, does it negate our faith and belief, or does it negate God, knowing what God says about doubt?
You ask why, as in - what is the conclusion. let me know what your conclusion is then.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-26-2005 06:22 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 04-25-2005 10:24 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by nator, posted 04-26-2005 8:32 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 10 of 142 (202799)
04-26-2005 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by mike the wiz
04-26-2005 7:20 PM


quote:
Shraff, there aren't any serpents in Britain, except adders which are hard to find.
I was actually most interested in the ability to drink any deadly thing without harm.
quote:
I will answer your question if you answer my questions; Should I actively seek a serpent or pray for an ill person?
Well, why not both?
quote:
Is it God who heals or me?
I don't know.
quote:
If it was I that could heal, then I would go and lay hands on everyone, but I don't have the faith or courage in myself.
But all you need, according to the Bible, is belief that Jesus is the Messiah to be able to lay hands on people to heal them, and also to drink poison without harm.
quote:
If these signs aren't abundantly clear, does it negate our faith and belief, or does it negate God, knowing what God says about doubt?
I don't know, it's your Bible, not mine.
Anyway, I thought you didn't take the Bible as literally true.
quote:
You ask why, as in - what is the conclusion. let me know what your conclusion is then.
Well, clearly, if the passage is to be taken as literally true, believers should be able to do all of these things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by mike the wiz, posted 04-26-2005 7:20 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by mike the wiz, posted 04-26-2005 8:41 PM nator has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 11 of 142 (202803)
04-26-2005 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by nator
04-26-2005 8:32 PM


So your answer is "dunno", "it's your bible".
My answer is that neither do I know why I believe yet don't pick up snakes. I guess it can still be true, if it is a sign to whom it is a sign.
Let's look at what the bible says about what the bible says.
The bible says that the pharisees asked for many signs, and they didn't believe and Christ gave them the sign of Jonah.
Who then would receive the sign of not being poisoned? The doubter or the believer?
Well, clearly, if the passage is to be taken as literally true, believers should be able to do all of these things.
So the bible is not true if you can't see the sign? Where does it mention you, with your bunsen burner and ticker tape timer?
Does this mean I lack faith in God? Or does it mean I don't seek a sign? If I don't seek a sign yet believe, what is the excuse for those who don't believe yet seek a sign?
I'll tell you your conclusion; You think the bible is untrue, because you, like the pharisee, see no sign.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by nator, posted 04-26-2005 8:32 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by nator, posted 04-26-2005 8:45 PM mike the wiz has replied
 Message 14 by dsv, posted 04-26-2005 8:52 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 12 of 142 (202805)
04-26-2005 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by mike the wiz
04-26-2005 8:41 PM


Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mike, what does this passage say that believers will be able to do?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by mike the wiz, posted 04-26-2005 8:41 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by mike the wiz, posted 04-26-2005 8:48 PM nator has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 13 of 142 (202806)
04-26-2005 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by nator
04-26-2005 8:45 PM


It says many things will believers do. Does it say one believer shall accomplish them all? DOes it say it is a law that one believer must complete these tasks when assigned as stumbling blocks by none-believers?
I believe many have done all these things, as testimonies have reached my ears. Even Paul was poisoned, yet came to no harm).
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-26-2005 07:49 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by nator, posted 04-26-2005 8:45 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by nator, posted 04-26-2005 9:07 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
dsv
Member (Idle past 4723 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 14 of 142 (202807)
04-26-2005 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by mike the wiz
04-26-2005 8:41 PM


mike the wiz writes:
Where does it mention you, with your bunsen burner and ticker tape timer?
Funniest thing I have ever read on EvC. I literally spit out my pepsi onto my powerbook.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by mike the wiz, posted 04-26-2005 8:41 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 15 of 142 (202808)
04-26-2005 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by dsv
04-26-2005 8:52 PM


. Do you think Shraff laughed? I hope I didn't damage your powerbook.
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-26-2005 09:01 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by dsv, posted 04-26-2005 8:52 PM dsv has not replied

  
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