Atheist vs Agnostic

Yikes, you don't have to break out the pitchfork.

Here's one atheist that says "it's not possible to know that there are no gods, but it is possible to know that some gods aren't."

So what?Seriously, this isn't meant to be patronizing. An equal amount of evidence exists to suggest the existence of all three... the square root of diddly-squat.What makes God so special?If you feel comfortable in the stance "Bigfoot does not exist", then why not "God does not exist"?

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"Creationists make it sound as though a theory is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
-Isaac Asimov

Good point. I am not so sure Big foot does not exist. A homid type creature existing in the remote wilderness seems to be a possibiltiy. On the other hand, Loch Ness has been very much explored with sonar and no recent evidence suggest that Nessie exist. Not to mention the fact that the lake would not have enough food source to support a Dino of that size. "What makes God so special." Well acutally nothing. Except that a vast majority of humans believe that such a diety exist. Anyone can say God exist, and just as easily one could maintain that he does not. What irks atheist IMO is that since no scientific evidence has been found to support the existance of God why would anyone think God exist? And if one who claims to be agnostic decides to be neutral on the issue of the existance of God is liken to saying that God could be a possiblilty. Saying God could be a possiblility to someone whos says God can not be a possibilty is like calling someone a liar. It burns the skin. Hows them lemurs doing

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My question for agnostics is: Since you're presumably pretty negative about the existence of fairies, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness monster, and other fairy tales, why do you make an exception for God?

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Poor analogy. Both bigfoot and Nessie are hypothetical physical beings who can be tested for through physical means. All I need to do to discount Nessie is drain Loch Ness, or mow down all of the forests in NA to find Bigfoot. Fairies are in between the physical and supernatural. They are supposed to be ongoing physical manifestations, so they should be amenable to testing. But then again, the absence of fairies can be explained away through supernatural mechanisms, so fairies aren't exactly like Bigfoot or Nessie.God, or any deity or hosts of deities, are completely supernatural. They act on the physical world through supernatural mechanisms (I know, I know, if it affects the physical it is a physical mechanism, but just humor me for the moment). Due to the supernatural mechanism, their effect on the world would be indistinguishable from an unknown, or undiscovered natural mechanism.I am agnostic simply because I have not seen evidence, but would not be able to distinguish the evidence from unknown or undiscovered natural mechanisms. I can't know if I am truly experiencing a religious event. Atheists take this lack of knowledge and transfer it to a lack of a deity/deities. I, as an agnostic, prefer to leave it at "I don't know".

Fair enough.But my stance is that at a certain point, this idea takes us through to "does lakjrelkjas exist?""Um... what's lakjrelkjas?""Doesn't matter. Does it exist?""I, uh... guess I don't know? What?"Do you see what I mean? At a certain point, it's just sensible for me to say, "If nothing suggests it, then at least for all intents and purposes, no. It doesn't exist." Gummin' up the works somethin' fierce, let me tell you...

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"Creationists make it sound as though a theory is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night."
-Isaac Asimov

Excellent point

Are they? That's hardly undisputed. In fact it's fairly tenuous for you to make any assertions about qualities that God has when we haven't yet definied what God is.And moreover, if the natural world encompasses everything that can interact with physical objects, then how can anything be "super-natural"? At the very least, how can anything be "supernatural" and still be expected to have some kind of effect on the natural world? And if God or gods can't affect the natural world, in what way can they be said to exist? This sort of acts as a proof by contradiction - since the existence of God in the universe leads to an outcome that is incoherent (physical mechanisms that are not physical), God must not exist.Or maybe not. I'm not very good at proofs. But some Gods you can know. For instance, if we propose a God that is omniescent, omnipotent, and maximally benevolent, we know that God does not exist.I'm atheist about all gods except the minimally detectable ones; like you I must be agnostic about those. But who gives a damn about a god that can't do anything?

Because not all of those who disbelieve in God stick religiously to their life's guiding principles of logic and reason.Agnostics know that they will likely never have enough information to raise their confidence in either conclusion to a high enough level to accept one or the other. IMO this is the most reasonable of the three positions.Weak Atheists know this as well, but for whatever reason: gut feeling, personal preference, or disillusionment with religion due to past experience, have decided to settle on the conclusion that there is no God until other evidence can change their mind.Strong Atheists believe there is no God and do not even allow for his existence as a possibility. This is irrational since you cannot logically eliminate God as a possibility.

I consider myself to be an atheistic agnostic. Nothing is proven in life but we can be pretty darn sure. My actual belief on the matter is agnostic, but how I concern myself with the issue in my daily life is atheistic.I don't think that we can ever know definately about any god or gods existing but yes, I am pretty darn sure about the non existance of any gods with particular traits.

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Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"select * from USERS where CLUE > 0http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Yes, you can! The very fact that there is zero (zippo, nada, etc.) evidence to suggest that there is a god and that that god is the christian god should be proof enough to reject its existence. Otherwise, we all should have to recognize the existence of every mythological being ever imagined.My question is why would the christian god have more credence, according to reason and logic, than the immaterial pink unicorn or fairies or Peter Pan or the tooth fairy or etc...?Strong atheists don't reject the possibility of the existence of god. We just realize that it's a waste of time believing in the existence of something like flying pink elephants.

You've got the definitions of weak and strong athesim quite wrong.Weak atheists do NOT take the position that God does not exist. THey simply do not accept the view that God does exist.Strong atheists DO accept the position that God does not exist but need not do so dogmatically.The posiiton you describe as weak atheism is in fact a form of strogn atheism - and it is no less reasonable than the weak atheist position. Arguably more so given that we should assign a low a priori proabibility to the existence of God and the sheer weakness of the case for any particular God existing.

I find this all very interesting. I had no idea there were so many shades of gray when it comes to those individuals who profess atheism/agnosticism.I still don't see much of a difference between 'weak atheists' and agnostics. I always considered that there were 3 basic groups, call them what you like:1) Those that believe God exist
2) Those that believe God does not exist
3) Those that don't know

You'll probably find almost as many definitions as there are those who call themselves by those names.

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Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"select * from USERS where CLUE > 0http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

By belief I am an atheist, as far as proof or evidences of a god-thing, I consider myself to be agnostic. I think the term agnostic can be used by both atheist and theist alike.

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"He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife." ~ Douglas AdamsI wish more people would shave with Occam's Razor. Orson Scott Card