Please give me so-called "proof" of Jesus or God.

PhatboyHey bud hows it going? Just a question here that I need clarified concerning this statement. Why ever would you suspend logic before checking out the evidence?This is the way to properly determine apparent reasons behind phenomena.If an event is actually occuring then it behooves you to seek out the mundane before the exotic.There is a saying in medicine I learned years ago from a teacher of mine.I think this is wise and practical advice to help in preventing us from fooling ourselves.Talk at you later big guy.This message has been edited by sidelined, 09-01-2004 07:08 AM

edit to remove doublepostThis message has been edited by sidelined, 08-31-2004 11:18 PM

I've been away from the site for a long time and I'm not going to try to catch up on this thread, but I have seen a couple of recent replies. No, my claim that Doherty's views are crackpot is not ad hominem. An ad hominem argument would be that you should ignore his views because he's a bad person. If anything, my statement was an argument from authority: I was pointing out that his views are far outside the scholarly consensus at numerous points. You don't have to believe scholars, of course, but I did think it useful for people to know where Doherty stands in relation to them. (And it is an exaggeration to say that Doherty has a lot of educational credentials: as far as I know, he has only an undergraduate degree in a tangentially related field. Any scholar in the field has far better credentials.)

The event in question (the death of James) was in 62 CE, at which time Josephus was ~25 years old and living in Jerusalem. The phrase used by Josephus is "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James". Where does that occur in the gospels? (Also, it's a bit difficult to suggest that Josephus copied the phrase from the gospels while also suggesting that the gospels weren't written until after Josephus' death.)

Hmm..lets see. Would you rather trust the wisdom of modern day Cambridge professors who do not in all probability spend as much time thinking and communing with God or a concept of spirituality apart from watching Seinfeld reruns?? Bronze Age "goat herders" were in touch with spirituality, trust me.

Hey Ifen, did you ever check out that website I found? Here is the link again: http://www.tektonics.org/JPH_D01_FYCBS.html

---

Pray for mercy from... PUSS! In boots. (Don't forget the Spanish accent!)

Oh, yeah, sure. They had all that free time, after all, because surviving in the Bronze Age didn't take literally every fucking minute of your life! Oh, wait, yes it did.

Actually, the phrase is 'James, the brother of the once called Christ
(ton adelphon Iesou tou legomenou Christou)Compare that with Mathew 1:16 (ho legomenos Christos), This same
phrase is in John 4:25.

I will note that the entire page was one big ad hominin attack on Dotherty.I find it ironic that J.P. Holding is attacking Earl Doughty on the matter of using scholarship.

Where exactly does J.P. Holding attack Earl Doherty himself as opposed to Doherty's arguments, reasoning, and method? That is what ad hominem means, after all.

---

Pray for mercy from... PUSS! In boots. (Don't forget the Spanish accent!)

For Born2Preach, I have pasted my response here B2P, to your rejected thread; (I hope u find this message ofcourse)I can try and make a convincing case that there is "proof" for God. You see, to me, it's rather simple, we are here, so there is God. If there was no God, we wouldn't be here. Everything in existence is from God. To falsify my Theory, you can try and show that nothing exists. However, most rational people can see that the reality is, that we do exist, and therefore by reasoning alone one must conclude God. If there is something, why is there something? There is no reason for anything unless there is God. Why would I be typing this? I need an answer NOW B2P! Colossians: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions, or principalities or powers: All things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.Now there is the universe, and all it's glory is for God.If there was no God, then there would be no time because time wouldn't matter. Think about it; Everything would surely just happen in no time. So why is there time? I need an answer!!Now; There is the fine-tuning of this universe. WHY!?! There is no need for life or time or fine-tuned universes if there is no God. Why would life come about? That's right, why would it bother to be?Now; Why am I alive? Why am I here? Why do I think? Why is there natural processes? Why does my body bother to survive? I insist that everything in existence, and all the natural laws, have no business coming about if there is no God. I mean, why would they? Why would there be any beginning? Why? Why would it? Why should it? If it simply is then it simply isn't. So now you must show me it isn't, to falsify this. (Man I'm good)

Mike the Wiz opines:

quote:

---

I can try and make a convincing case that there is "proof" for God. You see, to me, it's rather simple, we are here, so there is God.

---

To whom is this supposed to be convincing? Is that your warped concept of providing falsification criteria for your hypothesis? If we would only be able to conclude that your hypothesis is false if we weren't here at all, then obviously your case is based solely on wishful thinking.

quote:

---

There is the fine-tuning of this universe.

---

Sure, tell that to all the Martians and Venusians who were never born because conditions weren't fine-tuned for life there. Tell all the plants and animals who would have happily lived ten billions of years ago on this planet, but never got the chance because conditions weren't right for life then. Tell it to all the simnies and crimbaps and other wonderful things in the universe that can't exist under the present "fine-tuned" conditions.

quote:

---

Why do I think?

---

Why indeed.regards,
Esteban Hambre

Mike, I'm rather surprised at you, especially after all that we have talked about in the past.

---

The Laminator
B ULLS HITFor goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!

Lam, the idea is that I am trying to convince my pal Born2preach that God exists, as in this thread; here, he seems to be having doubts. So I thought I would have a "go" at convincing him, that's all.I made a reasonable case there, with some questions that I personally - have and do ask. I am convinced that God exists and for me, the proof is everything in existence.As for my past comment, I stand by that - I would find it extremely hard to prove Christ, and I know you seek proof. But check out that link, and see that I am trying to re-affirm B2P's faith because he seems to be loosing it. As for Hambre, that didn't refute what I said I'm afraid.

Infact, if we weren't here at all - that would falsify it. SO, I have infact told you how you can falsify it. That doesn't remove our existence. So answer my questions - why!?! Why do we exist? Why would there be time or any of those things you ignored.So, wishful thinking is that this is all some indifferent Dawkins accident. Hah! You forgot to adress my modus ponen. Atleast address it before attacking the person with some non-relevant sarcastic side banterism.This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 09-23-2004 05:39 PM