Is the Bible the Word of God?

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Originally posted by gene90:
[QUOTE][b]So for 15 years the students never asked him any technical science questions?[/QUOTE]

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If they did, he probably just responded with babble.

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Actually his students probably went to class and said to each other "I'm not asking Mr. Hovind, it's not worth my time."

[QUOTE]I was just explaning what firmament was. I don't have to justify my beliefs to Ludvan.[QUOTE] But the firmament would sublimate away in a few months. Besides, if God wanted to He would probably use a material that doesn't sublimate. Like glass. [QUOTE][b]Scientist have created fraudulant fossils in the past, so I have no reason to trust them now.[/QUOTE][/b]The few frauds there have been were rapidly discredited and those that perpetrated them had their careers destroyed. You're forgetting that all important new finds are subjected to intense scrutiny by other scientists, many of whom would like to make names for themselves by blowing other scientists' ideas out of the water. [QUOTE][b]Because of the high demand for scientist to find transitionally fossils. As soon as one is found the scientist is instantly famous. It's like the temptation for athletes to take steroids.[/QUOTE][/b]But these finds are always subjected to scrutiny before one's peers. Once that fossil comes to light it is in the open for anyone to study, not hidden away from the peering eyes of other scientists, including rivals. Remember what happened to Nebraska man? [QUOTE][b]I guess it could if God wanted it to.[/QUOTE][/b]But going around being afraid of it suddenly happening with no warning doesn't make any sense. [QUOTE][b]He was probably an under cover evolutionist[/QUOTE][/b]He made the Creationists look bad enough. After all, they never detected the fraud, he announced it.

[b] [QUOTE] Why? You can't defend your own ideas? Here's an idea, you invest in your own long-distance service and call Hovind and ask him Ludvan's questions.
[/b][/QUOTE]I did some investigating on the canopy theory. It turns out it could have been vapor, or ice. Either one would be plausible. Most people tend to think it was vapor and I am starting to agree. But,if you think ice can not be suspended in space around a planet, you're wrong.Jupiter
"Thin, faint rings of ice and dust circle around Jupiter."
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/2science/Saturn
"Its rings are made of ice, rock, and dirt."
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/2science/

If Noah had taken babies on board the ark with him,the word "mate" would be quite innacurate...babie animals have no mate,thats a basic principle of zoology. Furthermore,animals dont come programmed with all the knowledge they require to survive. They have to be taught certain things by their parents and require protection from other animals...that too is a basic principle of Biology...Who would have taught the animals what kind of food was good for them,how to recognize dangerous animals,and so on to the babies that supposadly came on the ark? And also,dinosaurs,being reptiles,attain maturity within a year...that means that even if Noah had taken babies diplodocus on the ark with him,he would have had fully grown diplodocus by the time he got off the ark. And since these animals would have been fed by men most of their lives,there is no way that they couldn't have learned to survive on their own in what would have been,lets face it,a completely different world that what they left behind when they alledgedly went on the ark.Actually,what he showed was a DRAWING of what one such skeleton SHOULD lokk like and accused the smithsonian museum of hiding skeletons of these giants in their basement,which is completely ridiculous,since even the discovery of such individuals would in no way destroy the ToE...it could simply have been a genetic mutation of a group of humans and many scientists on earth would sell their soul to be the ones to present such skeletons to the world so his and your assertion makes no sense whatsoever.The Christian God...thats the religion that was in force in germany in the '40...actually,christianity has been present in germany for 1000 years and in the dark ages,their inquisitions commited many attrocities in the name of the christian God against jews,moors and so called witches...guess old habits die hard. My question,which he did not answer is why did Hovind not tell his listeners that Hitler considered himself a good christian and let them jusge this information by themselves as to weather or not he really was...after all,the KKK are convinced that they do God's work and are all church attending christians. Does that mean that Christ is to blame for their misdead?...if not,then why blame evolution for Hitlers crimes and yet not mention that he was also christian?

[QUOTE][b]I did some investigating on the canopy theory. It turns out it could have been vapor, or ice.[/QUOTE][/b]Vapor would have been stripped away by the solar wind. [QUOTE][b]But,if you think ice can not be suspended in space around a planet, you're wrong.[/QUOTE][/b]I didn't say "ice cannot be suspended around a planet" I said ice cannot be suspended around Earth.Note that in a prior post I mentioned that comets start to sublimate about the time they cross Jupiter's orbit. Jupiters's orbit just happens to be very near the limit of solar exposure intense enough to cause appreciable sublimation of ice. Note also that the ice particles comprising Jupiter's ring are surrounded by dust. I have also mentioned the effects of a coating of dust on ice.Finally, note that Jupiter is much farther from the Sun than Earth. At 2:34 PM CST today Earth was 0.99 AU from the Sun. Jupiter was 5.19 AU from the Sun. And if I remember correctly, the intensity of light from a source decreases as the inverse of the square of the distance from that source. That would make the solar radiation exposure of an ice particle orbiting Jupiter right now 1/25 that of one of the same size orbiting Earth now. By they way, the range to the Sun and Jupiter-Sun are provided by heavens-above.com

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[This message has been edited by gene90, 02-07-2002]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by redstang281:
[b]

I did some investigating on the canopy theory. It turns out it could have been vapor, or ice. Either one would be plausible. Most people tend to think it was vapor and I am starting to agree. But,if you think ice can not be suspended in space around a planet, you're wrong.

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Jupiter
"Thin, faint rings of ice and dust circle around Jupiter."
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/2science/

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Saturn
"Its rings are made of ice, rock, and dirt."
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/2science/

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[/QUOTE]But a ring isn't a canopy, is it?------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

[b] [QUOTE] But the firmament would sublimate away in a few months. Besides, if God wanted to He would probably use a material that doesn't sublimate. Like glass.
[/b][/QUOTE]If it was ice it would sublimate away in a few months? Well how thick was it if it was ice? Saturn's rings have ice.It could also have been vapor. I'm not sure.Oh, and glass would provide no water to aid in the flood. [b] [QUOTE] The few frauds there have been were rapidly discredited and those that perpetrated them had their careers destroyed. You're forgetting that all important new finds are subjected to intense scrutiny by other scientists, many of whom would like to make names for themselves by blowing other scientists' ideas out of the water.
But these finds are always subjected to scrutiny before one's peers. Once that fossil comes to light it is in the open for anyone to study, not hidden away from the peering eyes of other scientists, including rivals. Remember what happened to Nebraska man?
[B][QUOTE] Could you start posting some transitional fossils in NEW threads and I will research them? I'm looking for the thread about that bird on the startup page, but do not see it? [b][QUOTE] But going around being afraid of it suddenly happening with no warning doesn't make any sense.
[/b][/QUOTE]You're right. The Bible has no warning of gravity reversing (that I know of.) [QUOTE][b]He was probably an under cover evolutionist[/QUOTE][/b]
He made the Creationists look bad enough. After all, they never detected the fraud, he announced it.
[/B][/QUOTE]And what did the evolutionist community think of the claim before it was announced a fraud?

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Originally posted by mark24:
But a ring isn't a canopy, is it?

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Yes sir, you're right about that. But it is suspended around the planet. We were addressing the question on whether or not ice could be suspended around a planet, right?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by redstang281:
[b] And what did the evolutionist community think of the claim before it was announced a fraud?[/QUOTE]Probably that it was complete and utter bollocks....

[QUOTE][b]If it was ice it would sublimate away in a few months? Well how thick was it if it was ice?[/QUOTE][/b]Not very thick apparently because water blocks so much light. Note that ice is denser than water and that 30 ft of water effectively removes the red portions of the solar spectrum that plants require for photosynthesis. 30 ft of ice would probably leave far less light than water. How long would a layer of 30 ft of ice last around the orbit? Not terribly long would be my answer. Probably six months would be my guess. Maybe as astronomers continue to study comets we can get a better answer.Also we're assuming that this ice is perfectly clear. When sublimation starts it will not be happening evenly across the surface of the canopy and the result will be a thick layer of frost that blocks all light. [QUOTE][b]Saturn's rings have ice.[/QUOTE][/b]Saturn is nine times further from the Sun than Earth. Ice orbiting Saturn would recieve 1/81 or 1.2% of the amount of solar energy the same particle would receive orbiting Earth. [QUOTE][b]And what did the evolutionist community think of the claim before it was announced a fraud?[/QUOTE][/b]Sun Pictures' claim? They probably laughed and went about their business.

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[This message has been edited by gene90, 02-07-2002]

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Originally posted by redstang281:
Yes sir, you're right about that. But it is suspended around the planet. We were addressing the question on whether or not ice could be suspended around a planet, right?

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suspended no in orbit yes if it was a complete canopy of ice it would be a sphere with an axis of rotation at the points on the sphere near the axis of rotation the ice wouldn`t be moving fast enough to avoid gravitational collapse to a lower orbit (read as the surface of the earth) thus busting the canopy ....*note* - claiming that it wouldn`t rotate merely spreads the problem of gravitational collapse to the whole structure...*note* - this collapse would happen very quickly certainly to soon for all the pre flood events in the bible....

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[This message has been edited by joz, 02-07-2002]

[QUOTE][b]We were addressing the question on whether or not ice could be suspended around a planet, right?[/QUOTE][/b]No, we are addressing how long ice could orbit Earth.

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Originally posted by gene90:
Note that ice is denser than water..

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Actually ice is one of the few solids that is less dense than its liquid state...thats why pipes burst when they freeze its to do with hydrogen bonding I believe....However the densities are of a close order of magnitude so to all extents and purposes the 30 foot argument is probably fine....

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Originally posted by LudvanB:
If Noah had taken babies on board the ark with him,the word "mate" would be quite innacurate...babie animals have no mate,thats a basic principle of zoology.

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I don't think God intended for them to mate on the boat did he? Just in the future, right? [b] [QUOTE] Furthermore,animals dont come programmed with all the knowledge they require to survive. They have to be taught certain things by their parents and require protection from other animals...that too is a basic principle of Biology...
[/b][/QUOTE]Actually the Bible says God sent the animals to Noah. I'm sure God picked a good example of each animal for the ark. Reptiles do in fact come preprogrammed. A snake, frog, turtle, all know how to do there thing when they are born. God may have sent other kinds of smaller animals fully grown. Are you sure you went to biology, wasn't I the ignorant one here? [b] [QUOTE] also,dinosaurs,being reptiles,attain maturity within a year...
[/b][/QUOTE]Raised many dinosaurs have you? Are you sure about that reptile bit?iguanas attain sexual maturity in about 3 years
http://www.ahc.umn.edu/rar/MNAALAS/Iguana.html[b] [QUOTE] Actually,what he showed was a DRAWING of what one such skeleton SHOULD lokk like and accused the smithsonian museum of hiding skeletons of these giants in their basement,which is completely ridiculous,since even the discovery of such individuals would in no way destroy the ToE...it could simply have been a genetic mutation of a group of humans and many scientists on earth would sell their soul to be the ones to present such skeletons to the world so his and your assertion makes no sense whatsoever.
[/b][/QUOTE]Download a newer copy of the video. [b] [QUOTE] The Christian God...thats the religion that was in force in germany in the '40
[/b][/QUOTE]Here's some reading for you on hitler and his religious beliefs.
http://home.infostations.net/quietsun/artath3.htm[b] [QUOTE] My question,which he did not answer is why did Hovind not tell his listeners that Hitler considered himself a good christian and let them jusge this information by themselves as to weather or not he really was...after all,the KKK are convinced that they do God's work and are all church attending christians. Does that mean that Christ is to blame for their misdead?...if not,then why blame evolution for Hitlers crimes and yet not mention that he was also christian?[/b][/QUOTE]Many people misinterpret the Bible. Catholics even preach evolution.

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Originally posted by redstang281:
Many people misinterpret the Bible. Catholics even preach evolution.

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Doesn`t really matter though does it they believe in God and thus get to play the I go to heaven regardless of my actions card, just as Hitler and the KKK do, Me I`m off to hell by your rules and to be frank I think I will find a better class of person there.....