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Author
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Topic: Atheism Examined
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 271 of 300 (391468)
03-25-2007 7:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 270 by nator
03-25-2007 7:29 AM
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Re: The important things are... too important.
Who decides if someone is "born again"? buddhists do it all the time ... again and again and again ...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 270 by nator, posted 03-25-2007 7:29 AM | | nator has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 272 of 300 (391629)
03-26-2007 3:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 269 by nator
03-25-2007 7:27 AM
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Re: The important things are... too important.
Who gets to decide if they are living a life like Christ?
Those observing their life.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 269 by nator, posted 03-25-2007 7:27 AM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 274 by nator, posted 03-26-2007 6:33 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 273 of 300 (391632)
03-26-2007 3:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 270 by nator
03-25-2007 7:29 AM
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Re: The important things are... too important.
Who decides if someone believes in God? Who decides if someone is "born again"? Each individual decides if they believe in God. Jesus set the requirements to be born again. Who decides if someone is an atheist? Who decides what it takes to be an atheist?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 270 by nator, posted 03-25-2007 7:29 AM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 275 by nator, posted 03-26-2007 6:41 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2197 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 274 of 300 (391669)
03-26-2007 6:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 272 by ICANT
03-26-2007 3:19 PM
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Re: The important things are... too important.
quote:
Who gets to decide if they are living a life like Christ?
quote:
Those observing their life.
So, everybody but the person who believes themselves to be a Christian determines if they are actually a Christian or not? If someone is a Christian or not is determined by the opinion of outside observers, not from the personal beliefs of the person calling themselves a Christian?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 272 by ICANT, posted 03-26-2007 3:19 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2197 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 275 of 300 (391672)
03-26-2007 6:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 273 by ICANT
03-26-2007 3:30 PM
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Re: The important things are... too important.
Who decides if someone believes in God?
Who decides if someone is "born again"? quote:
Each individual decides if they believe in God.
Exactly!
quote:
Jesus set the requirements to be born again.
Who on Earth gets to decide what interpretation of the requirements to be born again to use? Who on Earth gets to decide if a person has met those requirements? Remember, the reason I am persuing this line of questioning is becasue you made the claim that not everyone who calls themselves a Christian should be considered one. I am simply trying to find out what or who, in your estimation, is qualified or designated to make this determination, since you have made it clear that you don't believe that individuals can.
quote:
Who decides if someone is an atheist?
The individual.
quote:
Who decides what it takes to be an atheist?
The individual. See? Easy.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 273 by ICANT, posted 03-26-2007 3:30 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 276 of 300 (391905)
03-27-2007 11:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 256 by ICANT
03-24-2007 7:30 PM
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qualifications ....
Something I think you and others are missing ...
Last stats I heard was that 80% of US citizens claimed to be Christian. Some gave being born in America as the reason. I agree that this statistic is useless as it doesn't really measure the degree of belief, the term "christian" is used in a relatively nebulous fashion, and a lot of the responses are more ones of convenience than fact. A more important criteria imh(ysa)o would be some marker, such as regular study of the bible - whether in private or in a church bible study class. If someone claims to be a christian but has never opened the book they are all hat and no cattle. When a qualification such as regular church attendance is added the number drops significantly.
But just because you claim to be a Christian does not mean you are. On the other hand, just because you claim to be a Christian does not mean you aren't one either. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : church attendance added
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 256 by ICANT, posted 03-24-2007 7:30 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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Stile
Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: 12-02-2004
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Re: The important things are... too important.
anastasia writes: Since this is the case it is not religion but society in general that has hang-ups.
Yes. Very true. I apologize for getting off-topic and over-bearing. It's just that so much of society that wants to feel good about pro-longing a very negative "social hang-up" hide within Religion. Which is how I easily fell into that trap. I shall desist.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 253 by anastasia, posted 03-23-2007 9:42 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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Stile
Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: 12-02-2004
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Message 278 of 300 (392014)
03-28-2007 4:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 254 by ICANT
03-23-2007 10:47 PM
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Re: The important things are... too important.
ICANT writes: That is the problem Religion can stop nothing.
No. The problem is that they havn't even tried. Or, at least, the high-up tip-top leaders aren't doing anything about it. Or are even promoting such behaviour.
Why would, not killing humans, not committing adultery, not stealing, not telling lies on your neighbor and not coveting anything that belonged to your neighbor, cause us to enter into Stagnation?
If that is all we did, then we would not grow. If all we did was keep those 5 commandments, we would never increase of knowledge of how to become better people. Just stay with the same knowledge of how "not to be bad". Stagnation. Where is the learning here? Where is the striving to be better? I didn't say these 5 things were bad. Just that if we only did them, then we would not be able to grow. And no growth means absolutely no positive growth, which is a bad thing.
ICANT writes: ..if God did not exist, (which I believe that He does), if we did keep those particular values this world would be a great place to live.
Ah, I agree. Yes, this is true. Yet it has nothing to do with my point... However, if we only kept those 5 commandments, we still would not grow. And I would still not be happy 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 254 by ICANT, posted 03-23-2007 10:47 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 279 by ICANT, posted 03-28-2007 6:01 PM | | Stile has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 279 of 300 (392027)
03-28-2007 6:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 278 by Stile
03-28-2007 4:05 PM
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Re: The important things are... too important.
However, if we only kept those 5 commandments, we still would not grow. What would you suggest we add?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 278 by Stile, posted 03-28-2007 4:05 PM | | Stile has replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 280 of 300 (392032)
03-28-2007 7:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 279 by ICANT
03-28-2007 6:01 PM
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Re: The important things are... too important.
How about "don't rape"? Don't you find it sort of weird that none of the ten commandments are a prohibition against having sex with a woman against her consent?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 279 by ICANT, posted 03-28-2007 6:01 PM | | ICANT has replied |
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Stile
Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: 12-02-2004
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Message 281 of 300 (392034)
03-28-2007 7:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 279 by ICANT
03-28-2007 6:01 PM
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Re: The important things are... too important.
ICANT writes: What would you suggest we add? For starters, each and every one of those 5 things is a "Don't do this..." thing. Being good and moral is more than simply not being bad. How about "Love your neighbour"? Or even something small... "Hold the door open if someone right behind you has their hands full". Do you think that niether of those two things would improve anything at all?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 279 by ICANT, posted 03-28-2007 6:01 PM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 282 by ICANT, posted 03-28-2007 9:36 PM | | Stile has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Message 282 of 300 (392040)
03-28-2007 9:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 281 by Stile
03-28-2007 7:38 PM
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Re: The important things are... too important.
Stile writes: Do you think that niether of those two things would improve anything at all? I mentioned in an earlier message the second command Jesus gave was to Love thy neighbor as thyself. The last 5 commandments deal with our relationship to man.
Stile writes: "Hold the door open if someone right behind you has their hands full". Why not hold the door open if their hands are not full? Why not even hold it open if they are going in? But I would put these in the catagory of common courtsey.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 281 by Stile, posted 03-28-2007 7:38 PM | | Stile has replied |
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ICANT
Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: 03-12-2007 Member Rating: 1.6
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Re: The important things are... too important.
crashfrog writes: How about "don't rape"? How about Thou shalt not steal. (Taking something that don't belong too you.)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 280 by crashfrog, posted 03-28-2007 7:16 PM | | crashfrog has replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5980 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Re: The important things are... too important.
The Fifth Commandment: You shall not kill. * Have we injured another person through carelessness or fighting? Have we placed ourselves or others in danger because of reckless use of alcohol or other drugs? Have we caused difficulties for ourselves or others because of their use? Have we risked our lives by driving or riding with someone under the influence alcohol or other drugs? Do we strive to forgive those who have hurt us, or do we hold on to resentment and desire for revenge? Do we use our powers of influence well, especially our voting rights, in order to fight war, oppression, abortion and injustice, or do we allow those evils to continue by our apathy and our silence? Have we been violent or abusive either in action or in speech? Have we been verbally abusive to our children or other family members? Do we share what we have with those in need? Do we support the life and mission of the Church by responsible stewardship - sharing our time, talent and treasure? Do we bring our Christianity to every day situations, or do we stand on the sidelines and complain about every flaw we can detect in others? Why do you think the ten COmmandments are limited to the exact words? They are just categories.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 280 by crashfrog, posted 03-28-2007 7:16 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5980 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Message 285 of 300 (392044)
03-28-2007 9:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 282 by ICANT
03-28-2007 9:36 PM
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Re: The important things are... too important.
They are all under the category of 'love thy neighbor', which was the greatest commandment. I can't believe you guys are having this conversation. No offense.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 282 by ICANT, posted 03-28-2007 9:36 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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