Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Do some Christians need prejudice?
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 76 (177871)
01-17-2005 2:25 PM


I wanted to name this "Why do Christians need prejudice?", but I felt that the inherent presumption in that question might be too offensive and certainly would not always be true. There are many, many Christians who do not resemble the type I'm describing in this post.
The prejudice I see exhibited by different Christian groups here in my little corner of the world is quite multi-faceted and is sometimes aimed at fellow Christians. I've touched on this in various ways in a number of other threads; isn't it a fact that many fundamentalist sects feel that their own specific belief system is the one true belief system? This leads some of them to feel that members of other Christian faiths, even other fundamentalist faiths, are either somewhat astray from God, in which case they'd best be doing a lot of praying, or doomed to hell so that nothing they do short of converting to the other belief system can save them. Clearly, this is prejudice.
All through history we've seen prejudice from Christians, perhaps most notably toward Jews but also, again, toward one another. This internecine strife has led to civil wars, massacres, attempts at genocide, church-sanctioned torture and execution, etc., etc.
Today, at least in the western world, these struggles are more often fought within the structure of a larger political system, which can obviate the warfare that was once typical. But we still have the problem of religious prejudice. To give an example I used in another post: the Baptists think the Pentecostals are going to hell because they speak in tounges and the Pentecostals think the Baptists are going to hell because their women wear make-up.
Despite believing that most everyone outside one's faith is going to hell, fundamentalists show a remarkable ability to work with these infidels when it comes to a common goal: perpetuating prejudice within the larger culture. We see this in their efforts to prevent gay marriage today just as we saw it in the past in efforts to perpetuate slavery and/or segregation.
These types of prejudice seem to directly contradict the teachings of Jesus, and that's the point I want to get at in this thread. What did Jesus ever do to try to keep anyone in their place? What did he ever do to try to segregate a minority? What did he do to set an example of feeling superior to others?
I supoose 'Faith and Belief' would be the appropriate place should this be promoted.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by contracycle, posted 01-18-2005 5:13 AM berberry has not replied
 Message 4 by riVeRraT, posted 01-19-2005 4:57 PM berberry has replied
 Message 5 by pink sasquatch, posted 01-19-2005 5:21 PM berberry has replied
 Message 7 by arachnophilia, posted 01-19-2005 9:31 PM berberry has not replied
 Message 8 by commike37, posted 01-19-2005 11:32 PM berberry has not replied
 Message 9 by Swift, posted 01-20-2005 12:26 AM berberry has replied
 Message 57 by Zachariah, posted 01-24-2005 3:02 AM berberry has not replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 76 (177914)
01-17-2005 5:36 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 76 (178045)
01-18-2005 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by berberry
01-17-2005 2:25 PM


quote:
What did he do to set an example of feeling superior to others?
Fulfilled prophecy, allegedly - thus demonstrating the truth of the covenant with god entered into by the jews. The identity of a specific chosen people is not accidental and is fundamental to christinaity IMO. And that is why it lends itslef so well to factions and various forms of discrimination - explicitly the religion separates the worthy from the unworthy.
This message has been edited by contracycle, 01-18-2005 05:14 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by berberry, posted 01-17-2005 2:25 PM berberry has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 4 of 76 (178654)
01-19-2005 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by berberry
01-17-2005 2:25 PM


What did Jesus ever do to try to keep anyone in their place?
What did he ever do to try to segregate a minority?
What did he do to set an example of feeling superior to others?
Jesus was a warrior, and a nice guy. He put a lot of people in their place, especially hypocrytes, just the kind your talking about.
quote:
John 8:7
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.
I don't think he ever segraated minority, I think he taught the opposite. We are one body.
He preformed miricles, but it wasn't to put himself on top of others, but to show people that they too could do it to. He also taught the opposite of putting yourself above others. He taught us to humble ourselves. He touched the ill, hung out with the sinners, and prostitutes. He washed people's feet.
Kill em all, let God sort em out j/k
Let's leave it up to God who's going where, and get back to loving each other.
peace.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by berberry, posted 01-17-2005 2:25 PM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by berberry, posted 01-20-2005 1:48 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6023 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 5 of 76 (178673)
01-19-2005 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by berberry
01-17-2005 2:25 PM


isn't it a fact that many fundamentalist sects feel that their own specific belief system is the one true belief system?
It's a fact insofar as I've personally experienced it - one church I visited I have particularly in mind, where the preacher specifically stated that no one outside of their own congregation had a true relationship with Christ, and thus were likely going to hell. (Needless to say I was disgusted.)
I guess my feeling on the source of the prejudice comes down to this: Why would you bother practicing a religion that wasn't the "best" religion, and thus "more true" than all other forms of religion? How do you convert people without the concept of being better than competitive sects? If you think your practice is the "best", then it follows that you view the practice of others as lesser.
It seems that some degree of prejudice is built into organized religion, otherwise it wouldn't be organized as a separate entity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by berberry, posted 01-17-2005 2:25 PM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by berberry, posted 01-20-2005 2:05 AM pink sasquatch has not replied

  
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 76 (178696)
01-19-2005 5:51 PM


What Would Jesus Do If ...
One Sunday in 1960, in Leland, Mississippi, as an altar boy, I was counting confirmed heads in the congregation during the sermon in preparation to tell the Episcopalean minister how many hosts to magically incorporate for consumption by the communicates.
During his sermon, the minister asked the congregation what they thought Jesus might do if a large group of black Africans showed up for the Sermon on the Mount. Most adults in the congregation knew that the minister was preparing them for the arrival of local Blacks who would visit our church in response to similar events in Jackson and other larger cities across the deep South.
Well, about half the congregation responded by rising up and departing St. Matthews Episcopal chuch never to darken its portals again. (I'll never forget the minister having to cram dozens of extra communion wafers into his mouth and washing the resulting mucousy mass down with the surplus wine. Whatta look on his discusted face!) Most of the departing Christians found a happier Sunday gathering place over at the Presbyterian and Methodist assemblages. Good riddance.
Now, some folks may think that type of prejudice typical of Mississippi Delta crackers in 1960. But much later in my life, when my kids were attending Old North Methodist church here in Evansville, Indiana (in the mid '80s), an announcement that a Black minister, Rev. Hutchenson, would be taking up residence prompted about half the lily-white congregation to up and start a whole new "non-denominational" church up the road a mile or two. Again, good riddance.
Folks, were talkin' two very moderate, centrist sects here, not some wild-eyed, Bible-thumpin', holy-rollin', backwoodsy tongues-talkers. And by the way, both the Episcopalian and Methodist churches were instrumental in establishing Black congregations in the post-Reconstruction South and supporting desegregation in the Post WWII South.
So, yes, I too would like to know what it is about those god almighty, sure-fire, our way or the highway cultists that requires sectarian and racial prejudice to reinforce their absolute belief that they and only they have prepaid tickets to Paradise?
And considering my two examples above, we have to look not only at the archtypical redneck variety Christian haters, we have to look at mainstream sects also rife with racial bigotry and prejudice. What's up with that?

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by berberry, posted 01-20-2005 2:18 AM Abshalom has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 7 of 76 (178766)
01-19-2005 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by berberry
01-17-2005 2:25 PM


it is my educated belief that alot comes from the bible. the bible contains many, many isolationist and exclusive statements of superiority. we are god's chosen people, etc. the bible is full of judgement on the outsider, philistines, babylonians, etc. when judah and israel split, israel is the bastard.
so, yes, i think prejudice IS an integral part of the religion. but it shouldn't be. it is afterall a religion named after a man who said "love your neighbor"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by berberry, posted 01-17-2005 2:25 PM berberry has not replied

  
commike37
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 76 (178787)
01-19-2005 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by berberry
01-17-2005 2:25 PM


I identify myself as Lutheran, but I'll readily reject any Lutheran doctrine that doesn't agree with the Bible (of course, I would carefully analyze the doctrine and the Bible before I would ever do such a bold thing, but you get the point). I take the Bible as the authoritative, inerrant, and true Word of God. I believe that you don't necessarily have to believe this view about the Bible to get into heaven, but I'm not as sure as to whether or not you can reject the authority of the Bible and still get into heaven. The appropiate analogy is that you don't have to be baptized to be saved (ie: thief on the cross), but rejecting the saving grace of baptism is a much more trickier situation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by berberry, posted 01-17-2005 2:25 PM berberry has not replied

  
Swift
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 76 (178795)
01-20-2005 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by berberry
01-17-2005 2:25 PM


All through history we've seen prejudice from Christians
It was people who claimed to be Christians. There are black sheep and wolfs in sheeps clothing.
the Baptists think the Pentecostals are going to hell because they speak in tounges and the Pentecostals think the Baptists are going to hell because their women wear make-up.
Now thats a little exteme. Im a Baptist and I have a Pastor that was Penacostal for a long time. No one belives that anyone is going to Hell for those things. They just think they are a little off from what the bible teaches.
We see this in their efforts to prevent gay marriage
You know what happened to Sodom and Gamora. Well I think the USA will have to change its name to United States of Sodom and Gamora. As well as a few other countrys(Canada). Its not just something that is sick unclean and unnatural but something that aint to healthy if ya get my drift.
perpetuate slavery and/or segregation.
There were very very few who saw slavery as good.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by berberry, posted 01-17-2005 2:25 PM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by berberry, posted 01-20-2005 1:34 AM Swift has replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 76 (178817)
01-20-2005 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Swift
01-20-2005 12:26 AM


dumbing it down
"Swift" writes:
quote:
Im a Baptist and I have a Pastor that was Penacostal for a long time. No one belives that anyone is going to Hell for those things.
And I've lived around fundie Southern Baptists all my life and yes, they most certainly do think the Pentecostals are going to hell. That may be an idea that's dying out, but so is the Southern Baptist Church's support for slavery. We must give them credit, since in 1996 they took the bold, brave step of proclaiming in a dramatic reversal of previous doctrine to all the world that slavery was a sin. 1996. That would be 9 years ago.
quote:
You know what happened to Sodom and Gamora. Well I think the USA will have to change its name to United States of Sodom and Gamora.
Have you actually read Genesis 19? The only sin you notice is homosexuality? Read it again. Pay particular attention to the behavior of the "rightous" Lot.
quote:
Its not just something that is sick unclean and unnatural but something that aint to healthy if ya get my drift.
Three assesrtions in one sentence, my aren't we on the ball? Let's see the evidence to back up this nonsense. You're not up to the task, of course, but let's see whacha got.
quote:
There were very very few who saw slavery as good.
Don't know much about history, huh? The Southern Baptist faith is the largest protestant faith in America. You need to do a bit of research about them. Here's a clue: the SBC was founded on the principle of legalized slavery. This principle remained a pillar of the church's doctrine until 1996. That would be 9 years ago.

Keep America Safe AND Free!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Swift, posted 01-20-2005 12:26 AM Swift has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Swift, posted 01-20-2005 5:37 PM berberry has replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 76 (178822)
01-20-2005 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by riVeRraT
01-19-2005 4:57 PM


riVeRraT writes:
quote:
Jesus was a warrior...
I'm no expert on Jesus, but I wasn't aware that he fought a war. What am I forgetting?
quote:
...and a nice guy.
I can go there. Many Christians are good people who are far more concerned with helping their fellows than with judging them. Such Christans are not at all like the ones I was describing in the OP.
quote:
peace.
Same to ya!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by riVeRraT, posted 01-19-2005 4:57 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by riVeRraT, posted 01-20-2005 8:12 AM berberry has replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 76 (178825)
01-20-2005 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by pink sasquatch
01-19-2005 5:21 PM


pink sasquatch writes:
quote:
Why would you bother practicing a religion that wasn't the "best" religion, and thus "more true" than all other forms of religion?
I understand the logic, but it's repellently tribal. So sad that so many of us have not evolved much from prehistory.
I'm still interested in seeing anything from the direct teachings of Jesus that can be used to justify bigotry.

Keep America Safe AND Free!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by pink sasquatch, posted 01-19-2005 5:21 PM pink sasquatch has not replied

  
berberry
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 76 (178831)
01-20-2005 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Abshalom
01-19-2005 5:51 PM


Re: What Would Jesus Do If ...
Abshalom writes:
quote:
Most adults in the congregation knew that the minister was preparing them for the arrival of local Blacks who would visit our church in response to similar events in Jackson and other larger cities across the deep South.
That's remarkable because I grew up in one of those Episcopal churches in Jackson, and I was an alter boy. I don't remember how many folks left before our first visit by a black preacher, but they were quickly replaced and the church continued to grow. It's still growing, although the congregation disappointed me by moving to the suburbs about a decade ago.
Interesting that the Evansville non-denominational church was formed by disgruntled white racists. Here in the Deep South the non-denominational churches are exceedingly bigoted toward anyone who doesn't accept the doctrine of biblical inerrancy, but they can't be accused of being racist. The congregations always seem to have an almost 50:50 black-to-white ratio.

Keep America Safe AND Free!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Abshalom, posted 01-19-2005 5:51 PM Abshalom has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Abshalom, posted 01-20-2005 10:38 AM berberry has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 14 of 76 (178865)
01-20-2005 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by berberry
01-20-2005 1:48 AM


I'm no expert on Jesus, but I wasn't aware that he fought a war. What am I forgetting?
He fought a spiritual battle.
If you walk into a temple, and put down a bunch of pharisee's, thats like starting war.
He fought with the devil.
When they came to capture him to kill him, they asked "are you Jesus of nazerine?" He said yes, and they all fell down.
He fought demons, and drove them away.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by berberry, posted 01-20-2005 1:48 AM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by berberry, posted 01-20-2005 12:50 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 76 (178897)
01-20-2005 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by berberry
01-20-2005 2:18 AM


Re: What Would Jesus Do If ...
Berberry:
I think I should point out that Leland, a town of about 6,000 people (2,000 white, 4,000 black) in 1960, was more representative of the rural deep South at that time than a city like Jackson or New Orleans.
I was in the boy's choir at St. Andrew's Episcopal church in Jackson from about 1956 to about 1959, when a group of Black activists, some of whom were the now-famous Jackson lunch counter protesters, asked to be seated for Sunday services, and were escorted to the front two rows of pews. There was no hullabaloo raised about that incident that I remember; and my father and several other members of that church became active in registration of Black voters in Mississippi for the 1960 national election.
So, I just wanted to point out some personal observations regarding the topic of "why some Christians need prejudice" to validate their belief structure, and why some are more prone to humanist actitivism. I wanted to point out that it's not just "bible-thumping" fundamentalists who act out their prejudice.
Regards, Abshalom

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by berberry, posted 01-20-2005 2:18 AM berberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by berberry, posted 01-20-2005 12:46 PM Abshalom has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024