If you believe in god, you have to believe in leprechauns.

Hmmm... good point.Lemme think about that one.

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If you say there no absolutes, I ask you, are you absolutely sure?

Brilliant! The perfect explanation why science is still the better epistomology - it's the only one that's useful in the face of solipcism.

Very true. And under such a system how could you ever tell if the results you saw were due to the force or GOD?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well I would assume that the results were always due to forces unless there seemed to be evedence that God was preforming a miracle. That is to say the default assumption would be that there was nothing supernatural.Don't most people do this anyway? If you hear a voice in another room telling you to "get up I need you" your first assumption is that it is a non-spiritual being. This happens in the Bible to ... I think Joshua and he assumes that it is his father before he assumes it's God.Even if I heard voices without apparent sources I would assume that I was halucinating before I beleved that they were actual sprits.This message has been edited by The Dread Dormammu, 12-04-2004 10:54 PM

So your saying the most powerful being in the universe is automatic the same false being you fanatically worship??....well that is good to know that some strange floating ball across the galaxy with cosmic power could possible be your "Holy" Lord.....there is no such thing is unlimited power....nor is there a being that always has excisted...there is always a beggining and an end......birth then death.....death can be prolonged but not avoided....

Well, obviously, this is a bit different. Do I believe in aliens? no, but neither do I disbelieve. I can't say that aliens do not exist in perfect honesty, becuase I really have no idea one way or the other. Yes, aliens might exist, and maybe that's an interesting topic to have a casual conversation or even a friendly debate over, but ultimately, that doesn't matter to me, because that has no bearing on my salvation. The aliens are not the ones who will come down and save me; they will not take me up to heaven, they will not provide salvation for me, and they have no direct influence over the spiritual realm in a way that strongly affects me (no, I do not include exclusively spiritual beings within my definition of aliens). Go ahead, believe in aliens. I'll disagree with you, but with no ultimate basis for that. Well, I think in this case, the best way of convincing the thinkers (scientific and hardcore philosophical types) is not through personal experiences, not even their own. One of my closer friends, a very strong Christian, is a very science and logic oriented thinker (I actually have quite a few friends who are into math or science-- only a few of my close friends are not really that interested in those two fields). He, to my knowledge, does not really judge ultimately by his own personal experience, but by what he knows, by what he accepts as truth as revealed to him by scripture.Even though I am a sciencey person, I base a good part of my belief on my emotions and my experiences (I'm a bit weird-- In addition to being really good at science, I also write poetry, philosophise on both lower and higher levels, and participate in sports, so I bring experiences from all sorts of different ways of thinking into my beliefs and my arguments), but that is something that I often find myself questioning, because I don't trust the human mind in the least bit, but at the same time, as an emotional person, I cannot have faith without the personal experiences that I have had. Out of curiosity, what particular scripture/book did that come from? Evem though I don't peronally like using any resources outside the standard, 66-book (If there's a technical name for it, I'd like to know it) Christian scriptures, just because that's the only think I can trust as an ultimate, unfallable authority (don't argue against that point- thats my own personal belief, and that is not the topic for this thread).-------
Well, that's probably just about as much of my rambling as you want to hear in one serving, so digest that, and there will be more later.This message has been edited by Xenocrates, 12-08-2004 12:44 AM

I haven't really decided that there are aliens, exactly, but Jesus did tell his disciples that he had other sheep to visit, but he may have been referring JUST to the people outside of Israel.My quote comes from the book of Alma, out of the Book of Mormon; I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, more commonly called mormon, and I really love that scripture."Faith is to have a perfect knowledge of things which are not seen, which are true." --Alma 32I can't remember the verse!)But, Faith isn't something to be proven. If you have that belief and you feel it undeniably, I don't need proof. Yes, it is nice to have proof, but it isn't necessary.There are the facts that the Bible has passed more internal, external, and bibliographic tests than any other document of it's era, but that is totally off topic.

I disagree with this definition of faith:
Do you have faith in God? (I assume the answer to this is yes)
Do you have a perfect understanding of God? (I assume the answer to this is no)Faith doesn't mean having a perfect or a full understanding of something. I can't even claim to understand God in the least bit, but I have a very strong faith in Him. But on that same note, I fully believe in God, and in that way, I have a pefect understanding (perfect in the sense that I am absolutely sure about it)."Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1This message has been edited by Xenocrates, 12-08-2004 10:19 AMThis message has been edited by Xenocrates, 12-08-2004 10:20 AM

I love that one as well.

Pulling the thread back on topic here... As the only Irish person I've seen here so far, I have to admit that I believe in leprechauns. And god. (But more in leprechauns )The Rockhound

We could go with Mark Twain's definition of faith:"Faith is believing what you know ain't so."

Assuming that there IS no God, can you answer the question,
Why are we here? What is our purpose in life?You may answer that as that is what everybody is searching the answer to, but try and answer it according to the evolution theory.Also, if there was no God, I find it hard to explain nature. Everything around us. Such as DNA. How can something so complex come from nothing?And try and answer this question also,
How can something be created out of nothing?

Why would we try to answer that question using evolutionary theory? Evolution has nothing to do with why we are here. Evolution is only concerned with how living organisms change.

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*not an actual doctor

Don't know, don't care. Why, is it important? In no particular order:http://EvC Forum: Evolution (and Increase in Complexity) Replicated in Labhttp://EvC Forum: How does Complexity demonstrate Designhttp://EvC Forum: New complexity observed?http://EvC Forum: Behe's Irreducible Complexity Is Refutedhttp://EvC Forum: Evolution and complexity http://EvC Forum: complexity as evidence for creatorhttp://EvC Forum: Intelligent Design and Irreducible Complexity Questionshttp://EvC Forum: Evolution of complexity/informationhttp://EvC Forum: Natural selection forced complexity to increase?http://EvC Forum: Irreduceable Complexityhttp://EvC Forum: Irreducible complexity- the challenges have been rebutted (if not refuted)http://EvC Forum: Irreducible ComplexityJust click on any of the links above and join with the conversation. Huh?Just answer this, how can something like god be created out of nothing?

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Hate world.Revenge soon!

Whatever you make of it, my dear.Me, I like drawing. Spending time with my girlfriend or my friends is nice too.Your mileage may vary. Evolution has nothing to do with it. Who cares if I came her or I was put here? Either way I'm here. Might as well make the most of it.