WIll God save us if we don't believe in the Resurrection?

Well Hitler is just the easiest example.My original point was that if people believe they are doing the work of God, it seems like it doesn't matter if the acts are evil or not to the rest of the world. It's their reality.If we say that killing in the name of the lord, "cleansing" non-beleiver societies, and similar act throughout history are evil, we are doing so based on civilization as we know it. During the time some of these historical events took place, these societies truly believed they were fighting for God, doing his work, etc. I don't know if that can be questioned.So now, based on our civilization's standards, we are saying that all of these warriors of God are now in hell?

.This message has been edited by Brian, 10-14-2005 06:26 AM

No way to tell about the warriors, but the instigators are another matter. None of use are likely to find out soon enough to post the answer here but IMHO using "I thought I was doing right" as an excuse for causing serious harm to others is not likely to get far. I bet Pope Urban II got some 'splainin to do.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I understand where you're coming from but I guess I just see it as more complex. For example, is Pope JP going too for his pressure on African birth control issues? A lot of examples and different religious leaders come to mind. It just seems like there are a lot of religiously fueled movements that in my view cause harm to people. Obviously the people of that opinion believe in their hearts that they are right because they believe they're following their God and a noble cause.

Thank GOD I won't have to make that decision. IMHO, yes, he is going to far and I would say that his actions are very similar to that of the Christians promoting ignorance. And yes, there are a lot of religiously fueled movements that cause harm.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'm wondering what the meaing of sacrifice is in this context. Abraham would have lost much more than God had he sacrificed his Son because if I understand it God knew that three days later he would get his son back, right? This is like having a child go into surgery or something for three days but you know they will come home again and maybe the surgery was a painful ordeal but there is no loss involved.It's hard for me to see how God as described by Christians could sacrifice anything if sacrifice means loss as he is everything, no?lfen

I'm lost. What is the sacrifice? If you can have everything where is the sacrifice?I mean parents sacrifice their time for their children. But that is because they have finite lives. What loss can an infinite being have, and as I understand it Christians claim God is infinite? I don't know if that is part of your theology. I just don't at this point see how God can meaningfully be understood to sacrifice anything. A person's sacrifice makes sense because a person is limited and can't have it all.lfen

If you truly are GOD, to become Man, with all the limitations of Man, is certainly a sacrifice. We may not feel that being human is a sacrifice, but that is our human centric point of view.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

But he's still God at the same time, clearly indicating that the game is rigged. Now if he FULLY gave up his power while he was human - that would have meant something but the game was rigged from the outset.

In Christian belief, no, he wasn't. That is also a logical conclusion even if you take theology out of the picture. He was killed. If he had still been GOD it would not have been possible to kill him.In Creedal Christianity there is a statement of faith called the Nicene Creed. Part of it states: Note, "and was made man". During Jesus time here on earth he really was man, subject to ills, to heat, to cold, to hunger, to disease, to pain, to sorrow, to doubts.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

What is killed? What is death? What is dying?Where was God if he still wasn't God and what happened to the universe when he was killed?lfen

A very personal experience. Ah. The issue of GOD the Father, GOD the Son and GOD the Holy Spirit. Always fun but hardly the subject of this thread.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

quote:

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If he had still been GOD it would not have been possible to kill him.

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Sure it would - if he was God he could be both states at the same time. If he couldn't manage this, THEN he couldn't be God!You are generally straight forward Jar but I've never seen an answer from a christian about this aspect of God/Jesus that does not seem like a dodge.This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 18-Jun-2005 11:27 AM

I'm not sure what the dodge you see is. When Jesus was live on this earth he was simply another human. An exceptional human, but human none the less.But we're getting OT.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yes you are right..anyone who wants to discuss this further:http://EvC Forum: What's so great about the death of Jesus? -->EvC Forum: What's so great about the death of Jesus?