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Author Topic:   "God's" name
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3256 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 1 of 17 (113739)
06-09-2004 2:03 AM


I'm not sure if this has been answered anywhere else, if so, please just refer me to a thread that may have it. I've heard people talk about the "true" name of God, and that if someone knew it, they'd have some sort of great power. Now, my question isn't about this power or anything, so you don't need to correct that part of my question, but what I'd like to know is; why does god have a name at all? Other than humans giving him/her/it a name, god shouldn't have one. If god created everything, then god existed originally in a vaccuum, and with nothing to differentiate between, a name would be useless and completely unnecessary. If god just made one up during creation, how would that be any different than knowing the true name of an antelope?

"Of course...we all create god in our own image" - Willard Decker, Star Trek: The Motion Picture

Replies to this message:
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 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 06-09-2004 12:30 PM Perdition has replied
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AdminBrian
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 17 (113779)
06-09-2004 5:43 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 3 of 17 (113823)
06-09-2004 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Perdition
06-09-2004 2:03 AM


I don't think God has a name, in the Bible.
They call him a bunch of stuff, but "God" isn't his name, no more than "human" is my name. When he identifies himself to Moses, what does he say? "I am."

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by almeyda, posted 06-09-2004 9:20 AM crashfrog has replied

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 17 (113832)
06-09-2004 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by crashfrog
06-09-2004 8:30 AM


"I am that i am". I dont really understand the point of this thread. But he did say to people things like i am your Lord.

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1485 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 5 of 17 (113833)
06-09-2004 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by almeyda
06-09-2004 9:20 AM


I dont really understand the point of this thread.
You and me both, chief.
What's the deal, P? Do you think that, if we knew the real name of God, and it really granted awesome power, that we'd share with you?

This message is a reply to:
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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3256 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 6 of 17 (113891)
06-09-2004 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by crashfrog
06-09-2004 9:24 AM


Personally, I don't think god has a name either..in fact I don't believe in a god, but I have heard people say that god does have a name and that if people knew it they would have some sort of power. So I was just wondering why god would have a name. If no one else knows what I am talking about then I guess this thread should be allowed to slowly decay into the hinter regions of the server.

"Of course...we all create god in our own image" - Willard Decker, Star Trek: The Motion Picture

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 7 of 17 (113892)
06-09-2004 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Perdition
06-09-2004 2:03 AM


I think it's a reasonable question though. I suppose it might not matter as such. Yet God says "let us" in Genesis. I assume the angels might have to call him something? Maybe the "name" God is more important to those created by God, than God. We need to refer to someone by a name as it is helpful. But the pet cat I rarely call by it's name as I think it silly to give an animal a name, don't know why. Maybe it's because the cat doesn't understand language. Maybe a name only becomed useful as a sound recognition, when a language exists. I can only guess that the "word was with God" means he might have always had a language and therefore a name. But then, he might have not chosen to have a name untill he had someone else to discuss it with.
Anyway, good to hear from you Perdition, only last night I thought of how you made one appearance and then dissapeared for a while.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Perdition, posted 06-09-2004 2:03 AM Perdition has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Perdition, posted 06-09-2004 12:51 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 3256 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 8 of 17 (113897)
06-09-2004 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by mike the wiz
06-09-2004 12:30 PM


Slightly off topic here, but it's relevant...the reason you don't need to call a cat by its name is that cat's already think they are god. :-)
Yet God says "let us" in Genesis
Does the "us" refer to god and the angels, or to god and other gods, or to god and humans, or something else. I suppose I could look it up, but its so much easier to just have it told to me. :-D

"Of course...we all create god in our own image" - Willard Decker, Star Trek: The Motion Picture

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 06-09-2004 12:30 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by mike the wiz, posted 06-09-2004 1:19 PM Perdition has not replied
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 Message 11 by arachnophilia, posted 06-11-2004 7:04 AM Perdition has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4755
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 9 of 17 (113910)
06-09-2004 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Perdition
06-09-2004 12:51 PM


Does the "us" refer to god and the angels, or to god and other gods, or to god and humans, or something else. I suppose I could look it up, but its so much easier to just have it told to me. :-D
Well, that's a whole other topic here, that MANY would love to argue over. I would say it's the Father/Son/Holy Spirit, and maybe the angels. Though I think unbelievers would suggest it was other gods.
Slightly off topic here, but it's relevant...the reason you don't need to call a cat by its name is that cat's already think they are god.
Ahahaha. Ain't it the truth!! My cat ignores my growling motorbike, and only moves when the tyre nudges it. Also, it will sit in the middle of a main road.

This message is a reply to:
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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3475 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 10 of 17 (114368)
06-11-2004 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Perdition
06-09-2004 12:51 PM


See Legends of the Jews

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1362 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 11 of 17 (114370)
06-11-2004 7:04 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Perdition
06-09-2004 12:51 PM


Does the "us" refer to god and the angels, or to god and other gods, or to god and humans, or something else. I suppose I could look it up, but its so much easier to just have it told to me. :-D
it's refering to eloyhim, which is plural, but gets translated as god singular. the uh, raeliens take that to mean "people from the sky" as it's actual meaning is pretty... tricky.

This message is a reply to:
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michaelkuyenga
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 17 (114376)
06-11-2004 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Perdition
06-09-2004 2:03 AM


Hi ya'll. Just signed in!
Language only has meaning when used in its context of understanding! If I said JAMBO, it shouldnt be asumed to mean "JUMBO" or huge/large. It means, "Hi", "How are You?!" "How Do U DO" in Swahili, the major language of East Africans. The purpose of language is to facilitate meaning and mutual understanding. So, when God identifies "God-self" in Exodus 3 (in the Bible) to Moses, God purposes for Moses and all understanding individuals to relate in a meaningful way to God's identity and characteristics. Hence, "I AM" or "YAHWEH" (originally YHWH) prefigures God as personal, identifiable, relational, and contemporary to time.

The Best Is Yet To Come... From Eternity Past, To Eternity Future

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 17 (114722)
06-12-2004 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Perdition
06-09-2004 2:03 AM


If god created everything, then god existed originally in a vaccuum, and with nothing to differentiate between, a name would be useless and completely unnecessary.
1. God has never existed in a vacuum of nothingless. The Bible says he is/was the same today, yesterday and forever. He creates and destroys things now so by this we know he's been creating, modifying and destroying things in his universe eternally.
2. Why must God have a name? For the same reason people need names, so that others will know which person to whom one refers. There are thousands of objects, both manmade and otherwise, of alleged existing beings and so forth that people consider to be gods on the planet. Thus the proper name of the Biblical god is Jehovah (English) or YHWH/Yahweh (Hebrew) which means the "I am" or the existing one.
The word Elohim of the OT is not the name of a god, but the word for god and can refer to any god. In otherwords, the Elohim/god of the Bible's proper name given over 600 times in the OT, is Jehovah. The Biblical god, Jehovah, is also lord/adonai/master of us all according to the Hebrew and Greek Old and New Testaments. Allah is the Arabic word meaning the same as elohim or god. The problem is that there are many gods as I said and without a proper name, who is to be referred to?
This message has been edited by buzsaw, 06-12-2004 05:48 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 17 (114724)
06-12-2004 6:36 PM


I should add that the 600 + times in the OT that Jehovah is named are in the original early texts, but have been changed by most translators to "Lord"/adonai due to some late OT century superstitions of the Jews and their scribes. Thus I prefer the old 1901 American Standard Bible which correctly translates to Jehovah as it is written in the earliest manuscripts.

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1362 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 15 of 17 (114770)
06-13-2004 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Buzsaw
06-12-2004 6:36 PM


this is just untrue.
the original hebrew manuscripts say "yhvh" is most places. since the name was written, but never spoken, the actual pronounciation was lost. to make up for this, in modern times, it's been giving the vowel pointings of "adonai" which means "lord."
that make yhvh read ya-ho-va-h or yahovah, bastardaized into english as "jehovah"

This message is a reply to:
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