Military Chaplains are being censored.

When signing up for the military the person can specify what religion he professes. In fact, he is asked directly as part of his induction if he wishes to make that part of his record. No specification means that the military member, should he die while in the service, would get a generalized Protestant memorial service. That means that ardent athiests should specify that they are athiest if it bothers them to have prayers said over them at a memorial service.The faith of the military member is also stamped on their dog tags, in case they die in battle and must be buried at that site. This is so a chaplain that doesn't know them can provide the necessary rites.

I agree that Klingenschmitt probably thought he was honoring the dead sailor by repeating the sermon he says caused EN2 D.R. to "rededicate his life to Christ" and maybe he is right, but I read the sermon and it strikes me as highly inappropriate for a funeral. Although he mentions several times that he believed the deceased was in heaven, I'm not sure that preaching about sinfulness and the evangelical way to get to heaven is appropriate for funeral. The whole sermon just seems wrong to me in that setting.He also tries to defend himself by stating that the funeral was "advertised as a 'Christian service,' but sailors choosing to be there to honor their fallen friend should not have to sit through a fire and brimstone sermon when all they want to do is remember their comrade.I'm stil thinking about this and I'm not sure where I stand yet in regards to the appropriateness of the sermon. Yes, yes he does. What cemented my view that the Navy was right to let him go (my ambivalence is about the appropriateness of the sermon and using that as justification for dismissal...but it was not just the sermon that got him in hot water) was Klingenschmitt's apparent disdain for the "vocal minority" of sailors who disapproved of his performance as chaplain and who (in his words) "choose to be offended." A chaplain has a duty to that "vocal minority" and he obviously failed to make them feel that they could rely on him for counsel. Some of them may just feel unable to talk to an evangelical chaplain for whatever reason not the fault of Klingenschmitt, but from his tone in the letter you linked to, I haven't had a hard time figuring out why that might be or why others who don't have a problem with his personal faith might have felt that they didn't want to be preached at.Overall, he seems to take the attitude that the people who complained about his sermon were simply uncomfortable facing their own sinfulness and he can't seem to figure out why his sermon or his general attitude might have alienated some of his charges.I will continue to read more, but as of now I feel that the Navy was totally justified in dismissing Klingenschmitt and that the evangelical community is unjustifialy using this case as evidence of spiritual warfare and that they are exaggerating the issue by claiming that chaplains are being forced to deny their faith.

There were a lot of us NORELPREF (NO RELigious PREFerence) dogtag dogfaces back in those Far Far Southeastern Airline days. I don't think "atheist" was an option then, though it may be now.I wouldn't have cared if the chaplain spoke in tongues and danced the funky chicken on my grave. Of course, he was Catholic and so not likely to embarrass God in that particular way.Still don't care what you do on my grave. But my buddies would definitely have been pissed if they came to mourn and celebrate me and were subjected to a "sinner in the hands of an angry God" rant from some Holy Roller nutjob.He's lucky he's only getting fired.

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There were also avenues of expressing displeasure that were more effective than writing letters.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yes, the "God created men; Colonel Colt made them equal" principle held many fanaticisms in check in those days.

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A Chaplain has an individual right, just like everyone else, to believe and pray in whatever name suits them. And every soldier, marine, sailor, and airmen is entitled to a chaplain compatible with their faith. Its an affront that this is even an issue.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

Well, that's perfectly murky, since you seem to posit colliding rights without calling the foul.Leaving aside for the moment the fact that those who enter military service give up many individual rights enjoyed by civilians (prominent among them freedom of speech), do you agree that a chaplain's right to wag his tongue ends--like my neighbor's right to swing his fist ends at the tip of my nose--at the funeral preferences of the dead and their families?

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There isn't a whole lot that a serviceman can't do when compared to the civilian. Who says that you don't have freedom of speech in the military? One of the first things you are asked at MEPS is your religious preference. In the event you die, your religious rights will be honored. But this is all beside the point because the issue is that special interests groups are trying to make it illegal for a Chaplain to pray in the name of Jesus. This is ridiculous and unlawful. And a man who claims to support the Bill of Rights so fervently, such as you have expressed, I would expect him to stand up in defense of those rights. Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed quote

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

The SCOTUS has ruled many times that the military is a world unto itself in which many civil rights do not exist. Really?! Who are these special interest groups? My understanding is that the military command established an ecumenical policy, in part due to the most frequent military problem--a lack of adequate staffing--and the evangelical chaplains are the only folks refusing to accommodate a reasonable command policy. Do you have evidence to the contrary? No other group I know of in the U.S. military expects to defy direct commands with impunity. Yes. Indeed, I do: I fought for those rights, but I knew that I could not climb up on a soapbox during morning muster and express my disagreement with Top's policies; I knew I could not circulate a petition among the ranks to demand a change in pass privileges; I knew anyone of higher rank could call me to attention and tell me to shut up.Rights have limits, and they are limited in the military by the nature of the military hierarchy, discipline, and mission, in addition to the natural constraint of being unable to shout Fire! in a crowded theater. I knew all that when I volunteered--to accept military service entails surrendering some of one's liberties in order to help protect the liberty of all.Are you a vet, NJ? I'm surprised you don't already understand these things.Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

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Being that this man, DR, was catholic, and after reading the sermon, I have decided that it was not particularly catholic in flavor, while also not exactly controversial.BUT it was very obviously a preaching mission, and while sometimes the chaplain referred to a 'spirit' of Jesus living within us, he clearly crossed the lines of ecumenism when asking that people receive Jesus into their hearts, and stating that without Jesus on one is saved. This is not an issue of whether or not his belief is justified, but about what was asked of him in leading an audience comprised of many faiths. I do not think that he spoke in a way that would make people of other faiths comfortable.

No, NJ, that is what the evangelical community would like everyone to think is the issue. But it is not.The issue that Klingenschmitt was dismissed for poor job performance and a history of disobeying direct orders. He is making it into a personal martyrdom story and people like you are gobbling it up because it is "proof" of your fictional "War on Christians."The issue is that he abused his position as chaplain and went against the code of ethics for chaplains because he felt he had the right to put his own religion on a pedastal and by doing so alienated over a quarter of the sailors on his ship.What do you think would have happened if the chaplain was a Muslim and decided to preach about "Allah's wrath against unbelievers" at a funeral, even if it was a Muslim sailor's funeral? What if the same preacher had had multiple complaints lodged against him? What if he had disobeyed direct orders? He would have been fired and rightly so. Would you feel that "special interest groups" were working to destroy the ability of chaplains to pray in the name of Allah?On that note, who are these "special interest groups?" Can you name one group that has spoken out against the right of chaplains to pray in the name of Jesus during worship services or private counsel with those that share their faith? Do you have any evidence that chaplains are denied the right to pray in the name of Jesus during worship services or private counsel with those that share their faith?No, probably not, because you want to believe that there is some "War on Christians" and that your religion should have special privileges above and beyond all of the others in this country and the twisting of the facts of this case suits that belief.You mentioned earlier that every soldier, sailor, marine and airman had the right to a chaplain who understood or represented them (or something to that effect). Well, that is not always possible which is why chaplains have to be able to counsel anyone from any faith without alienating them or acting like a superior asshole. Unfortunately, Klingenschmitt did not fit that job description and he was fired. Had he been an honest man he would have resigned knowing that he could not compromise.

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A Chaplain has an individual right, just like everyone else, to believe and pray in whatever name suits them. And every soldier, marine, sailor, and airmen is entitled to a chaplain compatible with their faith. Its an affront that this is even an issue.

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Then it's Klingenschitt who is delivering the affront.It is not possible to have an individual chaplain for each faith and denomination on every base, every ship, every place that one might be needed. So a chaplain is required to make some compromises when dealing with people whose faith differs from his own in some way. He is NOT prevented from holding services for his own faith, nor from making his personal prayers in whatever way he sees fit. We already know that this is not an issue and for anyone to pretend that it is is highly dishonest.What seems to be the case is that Klingenschmitt is not able to effectively make the compromises required of a chaplain - it appears that he promotes his own faith aggressively even when it is not appropriate and offends the servicemen he is supposed to be ministering to. That is adequate reason for dismissal - he is not good at the job.

I suspect that you are right. Ordinarily, any Chaplain who ministers to an individual Protestant (who by agreement accepts similar theology) can use the name of Jesus in an individual session. If they forbade that I would be surprised. The issue has to do with obeying orders to be ecumenical in public settings...I'm almost sure of it.You probably hit the nail very close to dead center, Paul.

Omnivorous, that's absurd. Every one is entitled to their civil rights. The only difference between the military and civilians is that the military has to be run with definite structure. In order to achieve that, the contract stipulates that you are in fact an entity of the United States and that you have to fulfill your contractual agreement. You can't just up and quit like you can as a civilian if your feelings get hurt on the job. That's about the only real difference. But due process exists. This is the Air Force's newly drafted policy:"WE ARE SWORN TO SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES. IN TAKING OUR OATH WE PLEDGE OUR PERSONAL COMMITMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION’S PROTECTIONS FOR FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION AND ITS PROHIBITION AGAINST GOVERNMENT ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION.

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WE WILL REMAIN OFFICIALLY NEUTRAL REGARDING RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, NEITHER OFFICIALLY ENDORSING NOR DISAPPROVING ANY FAITH BELIEF OR ABSENCE OF BELIEF. WE WILL ACCOMMODATE FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION AND OTHER PERSONAL BELIEFS, AS WELL AS FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION, EXCEPT AS MUST BE LIMITED BY COMPELLING MILITARY NECESSITY (WITH SUCH LIMITATIONS BEING IMPOSED IN THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE MANNER FEASIBLE). COMMANDERS SHOULD ENSURE THAT REQUESTS FOR RELIGIOUS ACCOMMODATION ARE WELCOMED AND DEALT WITH AS FAIRLY AND CONSISTENTLY AS PRACTICABLE THROUGHOUT THEIR COMMANDS. THEY SHOULD BE APPROVED UNLESS APPROVAL WOULD HAVE A REAL, NOT HYPOTHETICAL, ADVERSE IMPACT ON MILITARY READINESS, UNIT COHESION, STANDARDS, OR DISCIPLINE. AVOIDANCE OF SCHEDULE CONFLICTS BETWEEN OFFICIAL ACTIVITIES AND RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCES CAN ENHANCE UNIT EFFECTIVENESS AND DEMONSTRATE MUTUAL RESPECT.

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CHAPLAIN SERVICE PROGRAMS ARE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF COMMANDERS. CHAPLAINS IMPARTIALLY ADVISE COMMANDERS IN REGARD TO FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION, AND IMPLEMENT PROGRAMS OF RELIGIOUS SUPPORT AND PASTORAL CARE TO HELP COMMANDERS CARE FOR ALL THEIR PEOPLE, INCLUDING OPPORTUNITIES FOR FREE EXERCISE OF INDIVIDUAL BELIEFS. WE WILL RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF CHAPLAINS TO ADHERE TO THE TENETS OF THEIR RELIGIOUS FAITHS AND THEY WILL NOT BE REQUIRED TO PARTICIPATE IN RELIGIOUS ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING PUBLIC PRAYER, INCONSISTENT WITH THEIR FAITHS.

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LEADERS AT EVERY LEVEL BEAR A SPECIAL RESPONSIBILITY TO ENSURE THEIR WORDS AND ACTIONS CANNOT REASONABLY BE CONSTRUED TO BE OFFICIALLY ENDORSING NOR DISAPPROVING ANY FAITH BELIEF OR ABSENCE OF BELIEF. IN OFFICIAL CIRCUMSTANCES OR WHEN SUPERIOR/SUBORDINATE RELATIONSHIPS ARE INVOLVED, SUPERIORS NEED TO BE SENSITIVE TO THE POTENTIAL THAT PERSONAL EXPRESSIONS MAY APPEAR TO BE OFFICIAL, OR HAVE UNDUE INFLUENCE ON THEIR SUBORDINATES. SUBJECT TO THESE SENSITIVITIES, SUPERIORS ENJOY THE SAME FREE EXERCISE RIGHTS AS ALL OTHER AIRMEN." Where is the defiance in that? What were you in disagreement about that you feared reprisal for speaking out against? Yes, I'm a vet. Interestingly enough I just found out yesterday that I'm going back in on 3/15/07. I've only had a few bad experiences in the military. Only once were my civil rights in jeopardy when I was sent to Captain's Mast for something I had no involvement in. The tribunal did not afford me the right to legal counseling and the XO told me that I was not allowed to speak. Because he tried to strip me of my rights, I filed an appeal that was to go all the way up to a JAG Admiral. I drafted up a beautiful argument in my own defense and listed every single code listed in the UCMJ that they infracted. Once the legalman got hold of it, he instantly knew I was right because he was at the tribunal. It didn't even need to go up to the Admiral because my command expunged it from my record.The point is, the military is a microcosm of society, not some rogue state that subverts justice. We have rules that we must adhere to, laws of governance that we must adhere to from the least to the greatest. I didn't relinquish my rights because I'm still afforded them, even in the military.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

Apparently, the chaplain failed to fulfill his contractual agreement to be ecumenical. Apparently, the chaplain denied some of his "parishioners" their right to freedom of religion. Beware the Ides of March.

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Eternal Father, strong to save
Whose arm hath bound the restless wave
Who bidd'st the mighty ocean deep
Its own appointed limits keep:
O hear us when we cry to thee
For those in peril on the sea.

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