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Member (Idle past 483 days) Posts: 179 From: Sydney, NSW,Auistralia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: In His own image ..... | |||||||||||||||||||||||
drummachine Inactive Member |
What exactly did he say that was false? I don't even know what teaching it was. Please give me the name and I will listen to it. I know it was Dr. Mark Eastman but what particular lecture was it? I'm not trying to avoid this.
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Drum writes: What exactly did he say that was false? I don't even know what teaching it was. Please give me the name and I will listen to it. I know it was Dr. Mark Eastman but what particular lecture was it? I'm not trying to avoid this. The discussion has become confused. Here's the history:
Hopefully this is enough information for you to now understand the question about Denton. The website you cited quoted Denton words from his anti-evolutionist days and then called him an evolutionist. What do you think of sources that misrepresent or distort information? If it helps, the audio portion of the website is at Home / Mars Hill. I haven't listened to them and so don't know which one contains the Denton reference, but you and NosyNed should know which one it is. --Percy
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Mister Pamboli Member (Idle past 7577 days) Posts: 634 From: Washington, USA Joined: |
Home / Mars Hill :
This "catch 22" has been noted by evolutionist and molecular biologist Michael Denton In 1985 evolutionist Michael Denton made this astonishing admission This latter statement is quite simply a falsehood. Denton published his anti-evolutionist book "Evolution: a theory in crisis" in 1986 - a year after this "quotation." He later became an evolutionist and published a defence of evolutionary theory "Nature's Destiny" in 1998. Eastman, quite simply, could not have read "Evolution: a theory in crisis" without understanding that Denton was writing as an anti-evolutionist. Now, you know what really saddens me in this? It took me less than 2 minutes to find these quotes on a website I had never previously visited. Admittedly I'm experienced on the web, but the quotes were there for anyone to find with relatively little effort - especially someone who had posted the original links. You have procrastinated and evaded this question for almost two weeks. It speaks volumes for your personal attitude to the integrity of your sources that you have not shown one iota of commitment to addressing this issue. Now, one more time, what do you make of web sites that present falsehoods of this sort? [This message has been edited by Mister Pamboli, 04-25-2003]
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stevo3890 Inactive Member |
Hi, God's own image is Free will. we are free to do what ever we want and because of this we are in "his image".
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compmage Member (Idle past 5153 days) Posts: 601 From: South Africa Joined: |
stevo3890 writes: Hi, God's own image is Free will. we are free to do what ever we want and because of this we are in "his image". So why can't I exercise this free will and by just snapping my fingers have every rapist, murderer and child molestor die right where they stand? Because that goes against their free will? Well the actions that made them rapists, murderers and child molestors also violated someones free will. ------------------He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife. - Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
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stevo3890 Inactive Member |
Free will does not imply you can do what ever you want. It is just that you are free to make your own decisions on what you want to do, not an instinct.
People are free to do whatever they want even if it infringes upon somebody elses free will. God gave us free will, but what we do with it is our own choice. if i missed your point tell me and i will try to address it properly
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I think his point was that the optimum way for god to maximise free will is not a hands-off policy, but to intervene occasionally because some human actions prevent the excercise of free will by other humans. For instance, a murderer may be excercising free will by firing a gun at me, but what about my free will? I can't use my free will if I'm dead. Therefore if god was really concerned about free will god would let the gun fire but stop the bullet, preserving my life so that I could still have free will.
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stevo3890 Inactive Member |
Yes that would be the best way to allow you your free will but if God stopped his bullet he would be denying the killer his free will, either way somebody will have his free will denied and well, that defeats the purpose of giving a free will in the first place.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Yes that would be the best way to allow you your free will but if God stopped his bullet he would be denying the killer his free will, No, he still has free will. He still made the choice, pulled the trigger, fired the bullet. He can still go to jail for attempted murder. That's what free will is, right? Making choices? His ability to choose was not impared. He made the choice to pull the trigger. But the consequences of that action were interrupted. Free will doesn't mean you get to control the consequences, only the choices you yourself make. As you said, free will doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want. It just means you get to make whatever choices you want to - the consequences of those choices are not under your control. Anyway, why does a killer deserve to have his free will protected over an innocent victim's? [This message has been edited by crashfrog, 06-11-2003]
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: The first time, yes. But if God keeps doing it, that's another story. After a while it gets out that God is stopping bullets, and murder is effectively impossible. Suddenly everyone knows they can't choose murder, because God won't let it happen. For all intents and purposes, the decision to kill someone is out of our hands. ----------------------------- Dan Carroll
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stevo3890 Inactive Member |
By stopping bullets God is undermining the killers decision, and impeding on his free will.
About a killer having his will protected over the innocent, I thought that God loved all creation equally... so I guess the killer's free will is just as importent as the innocent's will.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
For all intents and purposes, the decision to kill someone is out of our hands. And that's bad how, exactly?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
so I guess the killer's free will is just as importent as the innocent's will. no, it's more important, apparently - God won't intervene to protect my free will, but he'll allow the killer's free will to run rampant. Isn't it much more likely - logical, even - to assume that there is no god at all? That avoids all these ridiculous cirumlocutions about "free will" and divine intervention. We have free will because there is no being who can intercede. Makes much more sense to me.
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Dan Carroll Inactive Member |
quote: Well... I can wax on about how the decision to do good means nothing if the possibility of doing bad isn't there, etc etc. But I'm sure you've heard it before. My only point was that recurring interference by God would impede free will. Whether that would be good or bad is a whole other ball of wax. ----------------------------- Dan Carroll
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stevo3890 Inactive Member |
First, Why would God give free will only to intercede on it? It kind of defeats the purpose of allowing us to operate independently of him.
Second, how do you qoute like you just did?
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