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Author | Topic: We didn't pray | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
After reading these exchanges between newer members and ones whom I have grown to know, I conclude that the ONLY effective way to "spread the Gospel" to the world is to live the gospel in front of people,(not in virtual forumland) and trust that they will be persuaded to discern a lifestyle that may better them.
As a Believer, I know that no amount of scripture that I quote,no amount of clever words that I say, and certainly no amount of debate that I engage in shall ever persuade anyone. I could, of course, trust that God reach everyone---in which case I would be better off not interfering-- So I now live by the adage of actions and honesty rather than words and "persuasions".
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
After reading these exchanges between newer members and ones whom I have grown to know, I conclude that the ONLY effective way to "spread the Gospel" to the world is to live the gospel in front of people, ...
And what if it turns out that some of the atheists are living the gospel more effectively than are many of the Christians?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, that's just my point. Who is to say that when a believer claims that God did this or that for them, that god WAS with them?
quote: I have no religious faith. I do not believe in predetermination, predestination, nor fate. Luck, and chance, are goverened by the laws of probability.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Thanks, and thanks also to everybody else's well-wishes.
quote: Well, that's sort of my point. If we can't say when God helped with X or not, then how can believers ever claim to know when he did?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: You must not ever pray for world peace or an end to hunger, or rape, or general misery, then, eh?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Unless you know the total number of "trials", though, you don't have any way to calculate if the number of "hits" are greater or lesser than chance would predict. 100 positive his out of 120 trials is different than 100 hits out of 200 million trials. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-11-2006 03:53 PM
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
What's wrong with a little confusion, anyway? quote: Without confusion and doubt there can be no learning or personal growth. There can be only self-satisfaction and stagnation of the mind. This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-11-2006 03:21 PM
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2ice_baked_taters Member (Idle past 5851 days) Posts: 566 From: Boulder Junction WI. Joined: |
Without confusion and doubt there can be no learning or personal growth. There can be only self-satisfaction and stagnation of the mind. personal doubt can cause confusion both which can lead to stagnation.Self satisfaction can lead to confidence and the willingness to go where no one has gone before. perspective is everything.
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2ice_baked_taters Member (Idle past 5851 days) Posts: 566 From: Boulder Junction WI. Joined: |
What I find fascinating is that, if a believer had been in our shoes and had the same experience of this unseasonably balmy weather and quite seamless moving experience, I am quite positive that they would have attributed it to God, even though the experiences would have been exactly the same. Ah....the experience would not be the same. You do not believe so it would mean nothing to you. A person of faith may find meaning thereby altering the experience. Just a different perspective. This message has been edited by 2ice_baked_taters, 03-11-2006 05:06 PM
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ReverendDG Member (Idle past 4110 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: |
I think this is a good idea phat, I think more people need to realize this is really the best way to go about reaching people.
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veiledvirtue Inactive Member |
quote: when i was younger i remember staying at a place called wildcat lodge up there in boulder junction...im from chicago. so many peaceful memories there. what a beautiful place. i need to retreat myself up there soon. have you heard of it? i like your user name btw
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2ice_baked_taters Member (Idle past 5851 days) Posts: 566 From: Boulder Junction WI. Joined: |
I live close by.
Go to shelterbayresort.com I am the guide. Yah gotta luv my office
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truthlover Member (Idle past 4059 days) Posts: 1548 From: Selmer, TN Joined: |
Unless you know the total number of "trials", though, you don't have any way to calculate if the number of "hits" are greater or lesser than chance would predict. 100 positive his out of 120 trials is different than 100 hits out of 200 million trials. Well, number one, you can always calculate a maximum # of trials for any life. One person can only pray so many prayers. Number two, and possibly as a result of number one, there comes a point where calculating percentages becomes irrelevant. I watched a guy once step on a very large needle and rub it around on the floor. He then pushed the pin through his bicep and pull it out the other side. The wound healed in front of our eyes in about thirty seconds. Percentages of hits to misses are irrelevant here. Something other than normal was happening. Someone could investigate to see whether it was a magic trick (illusion), whether the guy had an amazing immune system, or some other situation I can't think of, but it certainly wasn't a normal occurrence, even if that's the only time it happened. My point, from the beginning, has been that many situations are complicated enough to warrant investigation, and that there's no simple formula for how to investigate such things. There was a faith healer who wrote a book with a number of amazing healings described. If those had all happened, it wouldn't have mattered if this woman hadn't healed anyone else, it would have been proof of some sort of power, whether that power was natural of supernatural. Someone else investigated her, though, and found the stories impossible to validate, except for three of them (out of 72 total he looked into). So the answer was pretty simple. The things she described didn't all happen. I'm not saying that "hits" vs. "misses" is an invalid thing to look at. Admittedly, if everyone in California prayed to win the lottery, hits vs. misses would matter when a person claimed to win the lottery by prayer. I'm just saying it's not a universal answer, and I didn't think it was very applicable to the things I described earlier in this thread.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4752 From: u.k Joined: |
You must not ever pray for world peace or an end to hunger, or rape, or general misery, then, eh? It's true. I don't pray for those things. Don't think me cold, because I've always thought that this was given to us to sort out. Afterall, man is not omnipotent but he could end starvation and achieve world peace by this time tomorrow. I've dealt with these things practically rather than prayerfully. But generally, I don't make general prayers. I make specific ones. If there is an ill person, I'll pray for them. I wouldn't pray for world peace or an end to hunger because I know God wouldn't answer those requests. Don't forget, I base how I act on what Christ alone, said. He said we'd always have the poor, and he never indicated he would sort out the world untill the judgement. I simply don't regard myself as important enough to make such requests. This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 03-13-2006 10:46 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Can you, though? I have my doubts about the accuracy of documentation here.
quote: I strongly disagree, considering I was replying to this claim of yours:
but if there are enough valid "hits" of sufficient unlikeliness, then the misses don't have to be counted. The misses ALWAYS have to be counted, otherwise we have no way of knowing how likely or unlikely any of the hits were. Otherwise, falling victim to confirmation bias is very nearly a sure thing. Unlikely things happen to people all the time.
quote: Not true.
quote: Well, yes, I'm not saying it was a "normal" occurence. But if you are trying to tell me that this was some kind of supernatural occurence, there is a LOT more in the way of controls and testing I would want to put the guy through before I bought that something other than a freakshow act was going on. I watched a man chew up and eat a lightbulb without harm once, too. Like I said, unlikely things happen to people all the time. For example, isn't it incredibly unlikely for the temperature to be in the 40's in New England in mid-February on the exact days that I would want it to be during my move?
quote: Actually, there is a pretty straightforward way to investigate much of this.
quote: Correct.
quote: Right.
quote: It was applicable to the claim you made:
but if there are enough valid "hits" of sufficient unlikeliness, then the misses don't have to be counted. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-13-2006 11:07 AM
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