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Author Topic:   We didn't pray
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 46 of 126 (293942)
03-10-2006 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by veiledvirtue
03-09-2006 1:52 PM


Re: good vs bad prayers
veiledvirtue
you either do what you want and learn the hard way from the mistakes or allow to be guided which makes things easier..
You have not established that "to be guided" makes things easier. Where do you get the idea that people who are unguided have a harder time of things? I am an atheist through a personal decision based on lack of credible evidence to sway me otherwise. Am I somehow at a disadvantage in life any more than a believer?
A drunk man is happier than a sober one. Does this not also make it easier to cope or does it merely gloss over the human part and present a happy face over a hollow core?
This message has been edited by sidelined, Fri, 2006-03-10 09:13 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-09-2006 1:52 PM veiledvirtue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-10-2006 11:45 AM sidelined has replied

  
veiledvirtue
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 126 (293953)
03-10-2006 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by dsv
03-10-2006 7:47 AM


quote:
I just couldn't sleep at night with that kind of HATE.
i treat people fair, carry no hatred, help whenever im neeeded, easy to talk to,easy to get along with, have many friends, and sleep very well
im probably the last person that would have hate on my mind... youve got the wrong guy.. back to the drawing boards you go
This message has been edited by veiledvirtue, 03-10-2006 11:20 AM
This message has been edited by veiledvirtue, 03-10-2006 11:20 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by dsv, posted 03-10-2006 7:47 AM dsv has not replied

  
veiledvirtue
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 126 (293963)
03-10-2006 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by sidelined
03-10-2006 11:10 AM


Re: good vs bad prayers
yes.. i truly believe you are at a disadvantage as arrogant as that may sound, i humbly mean it
i think everybody has to work on something in life..we are all failing in some area.. there are thousands of facets that need constant attention. God is one of these areas. you will never feel a true sense of completeness without rounding yourself out.
there are no spreadsheets or diagrams that i can give you on the guided and unguided.. but im a very sentitive person towards the tiny details that change things and have noticed something in this area... a heart guided by the mind leads to confusion, while one guided by the spirit becomes easy... thats all i will say

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by sidelined, posted 03-10-2006 11:10 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Legend, posted 03-10-2006 12:47 PM veiledvirtue has replied
 Message 51 by ringo, posted 03-10-2006 1:26 PM veiledvirtue has replied
 Message 52 by sidelined, posted 03-10-2006 2:14 PM veiledvirtue has replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 49 of 126 (293997)
03-10-2006 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by veiledvirtue
03-10-2006 11:45 AM


Re: good vs bad prayers
veiled virtue writes:
yes.. i truly believe you are at a disadvantage as arrogant as that may sound, i humbly mean it
that's very nice but you still haven't told us why Sidelined is at a disadvantage.
veiled virtue writes:
there are no spreadsheets or diagrams that i can give you on the guided and unguided..
oh sorry... I see that you have.
veiled virtue writes:
a heart guided by the mind leads to confusion, while one guided by the spirit becomes easy
so, you can't tell us why the 'guided' have it better than the 'unguided' but you are convinced that a heart guided by the spirit becomes easy (whatever that may mean).
you are aware that the Bible tells us that the heart is "deceitful" and "desperately sick" and shouldn't be trusted (Jer.17:9), are you ?

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-10-2006 11:45 AM veiledvirtue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-10-2006 1:17 PM Legend has replied

  
veiledvirtue
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 126 (294005)
03-10-2006 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Legend
03-10-2006 12:47 PM


Re: good vs bad prayers
i need to get somewhere right now.. so i cant really be to elaborative at the moment
quote:
that's very nice but you still haven't told us why Sidelined is at a disadvantage.
hes at a disadvantage because of decision making
quote:
oh sorry... I see that you have.
you are obviously reading through that sentence
quote:
you are aware that the Bible tells us that the heart is "deceitful" and "desperately sick" and shouldn't be trusted (Jer.17:9), are you ?
yes. and you should know the difference between truth and deceit if you have wisdom.. if not .. you will be regularly perplexed
This message has been edited by veiledvirtue, 03-10-2006 12:19 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Legend, posted 03-10-2006 12:47 PM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Legend, posted 03-10-2006 6:54 PM veiledvirtue has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 51 of 126 (294008)
03-10-2006 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by veiledvirtue
03-10-2006 11:45 AM


Re: good vs bad prayers
veiledvirtue writes:
... a heart guided by the mind leads to confusion, while one guided by the spirit becomes easy...
Did you get that out of the Daily Bread loaf?
What's wrong with a little confusion, anyway? You'll learn more by asking questions than by taking "guidance" from an imagined source.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-10-2006 11:45 AM veiledvirtue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-11-2006 1:39 AM ringo has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 52 of 126 (294029)
03-10-2006 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by veiledvirtue
03-10-2006 11:45 AM


Re: good vs bad prayers
veiledvirtue
yes.. i truly believe you are at a disadvantage as arrogant as that may sound, i humbly mean it
I am no more aware of you being arrogant than you are of whether I am disadvantaged or not. I do not understand by what you define as completeness. I am sitting here watching the snowfall out my window and remember days of being happy beyond description at the powder snow I was buried in to my hips in while before me lay a pristine slope full of thrills.
I can remember the miracle of the births of my daughters, the deaths of my parents, heartbreakers and heartmakers of one life lesson or another and of all these I cannot ever remember feeling incomplete. To the contrary if one is not complete in and of themselves then they have not taken a good look IMHO.
Being atheist I can give up on hope and concentrate on help. I have no reward to strive for nor punishment to avoid. I can accept people for themselves including the blemishes and know that any direction they have gone I could just as easily have gone myself.
. but im a very sentitive person towards the tiny details that change things and have noticed something in this area... a heart guided by the mind leads to confusion, while one guided by the spirit becomes easy... thats all i will say
If that is all you will say then I shall not ask what makes you think that life is somehow tougher for those who do not share your point of view.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-10-2006 11:45 AM veiledvirtue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Phat, posted 03-10-2006 4:06 PM sidelined has not replied
 Message 58 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-11-2006 11:41 AM sidelined has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 53 of 126 (294049)
03-10-2006 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by sidelined
03-10-2006 2:14 PM


Re: good vs bad prayers
sidelined writes:
I am sitting here watching the snowfall out my window and remember days of being happy beyond description at the powder snow I was buried in to my hips in while before me lay a pristine slope full of thrills.
Its ok, sidelined....no two flakes are ever alike!
We simply must teach veiled virtue about "The Dance" and while you teach the choreography, I will philosophise about who the Director may be..... oftentimes we DO wing it without a script!
This message has been edited by Phat, 03-10-2006 02:11 PM

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by sidelined, posted 03-10-2006 2:14 PM sidelined has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 54 of 126 (294146)
03-10-2006 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by veiledvirtue
03-10-2006 1:17 PM


Re: good vs bad prayers
Legend writes:
that's very nice but you still haven't told us why Sidelined is at a disadvantage.
veiledvirtue writes:
hes at a disadvantage because of decision making
ookkk...I'm glad you cleared that up...
veiledvirtue writes:
and you should know the difference between truth and deceit if you have wisdom.. if not .. you will be regularly perplexed
..how can you have wisdom when you're not guided by your mind but by the 'spirit' ?
what do you define as 'wisdom' ?
and do prayers help you achieve this 'wisdom' ?

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-10-2006 1:17 PM veiledvirtue has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-11-2006 1:41 AM Legend has replied

  
veiledvirtue
Inactive Member


Message 55 of 126 (294203)
03-11-2006 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by ringo
03-10-2006 1:26 PM


Re: good vs bad prayers
quote:
Did you get that out of the Daily Bread loaf?
actually a friend mentioned that to me... and lets just say hes well respected & regarded around the world
quote:
What's wrong with a little confusion, anyway?
you can have it..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by ringo, posted 03-10-2006 1:26 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by nator, posted 03-11-2006 3:56 PM veiledvirtue has not replied

  
veiledvirtue
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 126 (294204)
03-11-2006 1:41 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Legend
03-10-2006 6:54 PM


Re: good vs bad prayers
i see you keep giving me the stick to poke the bees nest... but ill just give you the jar to get the honey
you have your own soul searching to do without me..deep inside i think you know the answers to your questions

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Legend, posted 03-10-2006 6:54 PM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Legend, posted 03-11-2006 5:51 AM veiledvirtue has not replied

  
Legend
Member (Idle past 5006 days)
Posts: 1226
From: Wales, UK
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 57 of 126 (294218)
03-11-2006 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by veiledvirtue
03-11-2006 1:41 AM


Re: good vs bad prayers
veiledvirtue writes:
i see you keep giving me the stick to poke the bees nest...
yes, I keep asking you questions that require more than some vague, spiritual-sounding, feel-good, appeal-to-emotion phrases as an answer.
veiledvirtue writes:
you have your own soul searching to do without me..deep inside i think you know the answers to your questions
I rest my case.

"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-11-2006 1:41 AM veiledvirtue has not replied

  
veiledvirtue
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 126 (294274)
03-11-2006 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by sidelined
03-10-2006 2:14 PM


Re: good vs bad prayers
quote:
I do not understand by what you define as completeness
its just that. i think alot of times, no matter how old you age, some people seem to have a false sense of how relative completeness can be. its so easy to become comfortable with missing areas in life that you lose the sense of what a bona fide completeness is. as smart as the person is.. its very easy to lose prospective. its not dependant on intellegence.. it goes beyond that.. you have to lower your guard a little to understand
quote:
what makes you think that life is somehow tougher for those who do not share your point of view.
ive seen alot of people go from hell to normalcy and not wanting to go back because of the pain and anger.. although i did say good and bad are polar opposites..i think everybody has different levels of each in them ..forces affecting decision making. no 2 people have the same heart and experiances.. so situations are different
ive seen it... allowed myself to be humbled by it... respected it.... understood it.. until you do that... a piece of the pie is missing or that last slice is generic
made img into a thumbnail to fix page width. I do not see the use in making text into a gif. Next time just type the text out. - The Queen
This message has been edited by veiledvirtue, 03-11-2006 10:45 AM
This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 03-11-2006 11:01 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by sidelined, posted 03-10-2006 2:14 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-11-2006 12:10 PM veiledvirtue has not replied
 Message 60 by sidelined, posted 03-11-2006 1:06 PM veiledvirtue has not replied

  
veiledvirtue
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 126 (294279)
03-11-2006 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by veiledvirtue
03-11-2006 11:41 AM


Re: good vs bad prayers
quote:
made img into a thumbnail to fix page width. I do not see the use in making text into a gif. Next time just type the text out. - The Queen
sorry to mess up the width of the page..
i used the source for impact.. and prob because i get bored easily

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-11-2006 11:41 AM veiledvirtue has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 60 of 126 (294283)
03-11-2006 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by veiledvirtue
03-11-2006 11:41 AM


Re: good vs bad prayers
veiledvirtue
The state of being complete and entire; having everything that is needed.
its just that. i think alot of times, no matter how old you age, some people seem to have a false sense of how relative completeness can be
You do not make the case for being at greater advantage here since you are not explaining how your position that being "guided by the spirit" actually makes decisions you take or your life itself more or less confused.
In the above quote of yours you are being obtuse. You do not make definitive statements that you can thereby argue to bolster you position but,rather, make vague insertions like"I think" {an unguided personal opinion} together with the statement "some people" {which is in contradiction of your position of universality of guided versus unguided} to the definitive adjective of "false" applied to a person's discernment of their lives.
The relative completeness you describe is just that. Having everything needed that allows the individual to be completed. It does not logically follow that what completes you need also complete me. I think that this is also the source of your arrogance.That belief in a guide allows you to be comfortable in your decisions does not validate the belief as an absolute requirement for all others in the world.
It is my impression that my statement
sidelined writes:
A drunk man is happier than a sober one. Does this not also make it easier to cope or does it merely gloss over the human part and present a happy face over a hollow core?
is an accurate portrayal of the position of people who believe in a god.
However, this is my opinion only as applies to some and is not a hard an fast rule of all believers. I cannot know which,as a matter of course, you or anyone is nor would I presume to.
In the same way your previous statement
a heart guided by the mind leads to confusion, while one guided by the spirit becomes easy
is opinion only and if you wish to promote it as valid you must come up with better arguements.

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Douglas Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by veiledvirtue, posted 03-11-2006 11:41 AM veiledvirtue has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 03-11-2006 1:46 PM sidelined has not replied

  
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